Saturday, 4th October, 2014
The party’s over
Any shred of credibility the Pembrokeshire Alliance had left was obliterated in spectacular form yesterday.
The top brass of the county’s newest political movement which dubs itself as the ‘alternative’ to the corrupt ruling IPPG, revealed some shocking news which is about as hypocritical as you can imagine.
In a shabby move which was very unfair on the party’s band of supporters, the Alliance’s leader, Cllr. Bob Kilmister announced on Facebook that he – personally, and not the party – had: “entered into negotiations with Jamie Adams the Leader of Pembrokeshire County Council about a possible coalition agreement with the IPG.”
“The fact that you are even holding a meeting with their leader to discuss a possible coalition appalls me. Any sympathy I may have had with what you were trying to achieve when you set your party up has now gone.”
— Jon HarveyThe bombshell went down like a sack of the proverbial brown stuff among the Alliance’s supporters, who haven’t taken the news lying down.
Cllr. Kilmister talks about democracy and accountability at every turn, so he’ll be happy that the Alliance’s members and supporters have been coming out in their droves to voice stern opposition, however the voices aren’t just in opposition to the carve-up coalition proposition, but the way it’s been handled.
From its megalomaniacal mainstays to its grassroots groupies, a slew of highly outraged comments have been posted online in response, expressing shock and disgust in equal measure that a Pembrokeshire Alliance coalition with the toxic IPPG is even worthy of consideration.
For those who thought democracy was on life support in Pembrokeshire, it must be refreshing to see the denouncements flooding in from teams of once party-loyalists, and universal recognition that the IPPG is the enemy whose administration of the authority has brought the council into the state it’s in.
Quite possibly JW’s favourite comment summing up the situation comes from Sally Sarre, who says: “Not happy about this, when a dog has fleas you do not sleep with it.”
Though the discredited IPPG regime at County Hall is more akin to a rotting carcass than a dog with fleas, Cllr. Kilmister’s judgement appears to have been so wide of the mark that early indications suggest the Alliance is a spent force – even if nothing comes of the coalition negotiations.
One promise Cllr. Kilmister is keeping is the one he made to Cllr. Adams over the confidentiality of their secret negotiations
As yet, the Alliance’s supremo Cllr. Kilmister, who espouses his and his party’s openness and transparency until he’s blue in the face, is ironically refusing to reveal the proposal that’s been put to him by Cllr. Adams in exchange for a coalition agreement.
JW understands that the most fruity element of the dastardly deal is the offer of the council’s deputy leadership position with responsibility for the economy portfolio – which would attract a salary not far shy of £35k.
Such was the shock value of the announcement, in the early stages commenters wondered if the Alliance’s Facebook account had been hijacked. Peter Warrender said: “Maybe the site has been hacked,” which received the response from Dylan Morgan: “It would have been withdrawn pretty smartish if it was a hack.”
Another correspondent asked “Is this a joke?” and in a similar vein, Jon Harvey posted: “When I first saw this I had to check the date wasn’t 1st April. You have lost all your credibility through this!”
“The IPPG needs breaking apart by what happens in the voting booths, a coalition should never be on the cards. Previous comments say it all.”
— Peter WarrenderIt soon became clear that the news was definitely no laughing matter, and following the blistering social media reception came some back-tracking, to the extent that Cllr. Kilmister claimed he had not worded his announcement clearly enough, saying: “I am not subtle enough to consider how to phrase things.”
A new post was also added reassuring members that, among other things: “We have agreed nothing and we are consulting with you. Transparency in action but you seem to want to shoot the messenger!”
“How the hell can a coalition with the IPPG even be considered unless Bob is in need of a kidney and Jamie Adams has been found to be his long lost twin…”
— David LambHowever it seems the damage was already done, and Cllr. Kilmister’s candid lack of subtlety made his intentions crystal clear, thank you very much: he had decided, on behalf of the Alliance, that face-to-face discussions over a coalition and its terms could take place with Cllr. Adams. That is the bone of contention – that Cllr. Kilmister has even entertained the possibility of jumping into bed with the IPPG’s rotting carcass – rather than ruling it out from the start like the overwhelming majority of the Alliance’s brethren.
“No coalition with the IPG. They are too soiled with their own mess to ever command respect, trust and support of voters. I cannot see how it would be possible to work with them.”
— Sarah Nutting“So much for an alternative to the IPPG” said Jason Lewis, “Big mistake” said Graham Thomas, “this is alien to the Alliance manifesto,” positing: “Maybe it is time to forget the Alliance” before suggesting the resignees should form their own new political enterprise from the Alliance’s wreckage.
And a mass exodus appears to be on the cards as other supporters made their intentions clear:
“At this stage, sorry, but I shall withdraw my support. As far as I was aware, this was not part of the deal or agreement when joining the Pembrokeshire Alliance. This goes against my principles and therefore I resign from any position within the group,” said David Lamb, the Alliance’s membership secretary.
“And it’s a goodbye from me,” said Liz Riby.
I have been unable to find a single positive reaction to the announcement – and they are still flooding in.
Only a few minutes ago, in an extremely well-written and considered Facebook post, the party’s elected president, Hayley Wood, articulates her own position in the wake of the bombshell announcement in very clear terms. She also describes the lack of consultation that took place. Her post culminates with her resignation from the Pembrokeshire Alliance altogether:
Following on from last night’s statement regarding the absurdity of a coalition and reading the blog giving a clear explanation of the current situation, I write with disbelief that only last week the leader of the PA said he did not trust Jamie Adams. Within hours a telephone conversation took place, which led onto discussions/negotiations to form a Coalition.
As elected President of the alliance no discussions have taken place between myself nor any of the Cllrs within the party. I am also unaware if any discussions have taken place with any of the Executive Committee for that matter.
I was emailed Thursday evening where Bob asked me if I could attend a meeting 10am Friday morning and was informed that he, Jonathan Nutting, Peter Stock and Selwyn Runnett were the only ones involved. There was no information regarding the purpose of this meeting. I could not attend as this was too short notice and asked Bob to feedback to me. This did not happen. Last night an email was sent out from Bob to the Executive Committee inviting us to an emergency meeting saying ‘I have this week entered into preliminary negotiations with their leader Jamie Adams but I have not and I will not take any decisions until this matter has been discussed by this Executive Committee’.
Clearly Bob is making the decision and not the Executive Committee. It appears the Executive Committee is being used as a discussion forum rather than engaging in the decision making process. The Executive Committee have not met since June although several attempts have been made by me to do so by calling on the leader to arrange this.
In my experience, when forming a new group consistency is key in order to achieve the aims of the group. A continuous dialogue between members and Cllrs is essential to further develop the party and promote engagement. I am well aware that things happen fast in politics but this depends on who is driving the agenda. At anytime since Monday evening, Bob could have let the Executive Committee know what his intentions were. I even spoke to him on the phone Wednesday evening.
From the messages I have received today from members and non members, it is clear that these actions have created fear, panic and distrust amongst followers of the Alliance, reminiscent of a politics that the people of Pembrokeshire stand strongly against.
Regretfully, I do not support the Cllrs’ decision to negotiate a coalition with a proven liar… Jamie Adams, and I will not enter into any discussions with them surrounding this absurd notion. It is with heavy heart I have decided to withdraw my support for the Alliance and resign as President.
Hypocrisy on stilts
“On Monday you said you couldn’t trust Jamie Adams…what’s changed? Has someone been offered a cabinet position???”
— Maggie ThomasGiven that the Alliance has consistently set itself out as a principled and democratic outfit which opposes the IPPG and all it stands for, yesterday’s news would always have been outlandish under any circumstances, however the juxtaposition is made even more remarkable given recent comments that have been made, in public, by the Alliance’s leader.
As recently as Monday, Bob was saying he could no longer trust Cllr. Adams or work with him effectively on the council, and was calling for the IPPG leader’s head on a plate.
“You should resign as leader” – he said directly to Cllr. Adams, whilst looking into his eyes, during a public meeting on Monday morning at County Hall.
In a prophetically titled post ‘A Test of Leadership’ on his ‘Bob on Friday’ blog yesterday, Cllr. Kilmister says of the coalition negotiations that: “The sole objective is to put Pembrokeshire first.”
“Be in no doubt – Pembrokeshire County Council is in crisis,” readers are told. Talk about getting your own house in order first!
He recounts a telephone call he received from the leader, Cllr. Adams on Monday night, during which he agreed to Cllr. Adams’ request to meet with him on Tuesday. Cllr. Kilmister says:
“I cannot divulge exactly what was said because I gave an undertaking of confidentiality. However, after consulting my two Council colleagues Jonathan Nutting and Peter Stock twice, I again met with Jamie Adams on Friday. We agreed to consider the possibility of a formal coalition agreement because of the current situation in which the Council finds itself. We have not yet agreed to anything – only talks about more talks.”
“I am very undecided what to do. I know Bob and Peter are in the same boat. But I can not stand by and possibly watch Pembrokeshire die. I have to fight. Even if it means I have to drink poison to do it. But I am undecided what is best. We need your help.”
— Cllr. Jonathan Nutting of the Pembrokeshire AllianceIn a bid to appease the rank and file non-councillor members of the Alliance, a meeting has now been arranged for the party’s ‘Executive Committee’ and its members to “discuss it fully,” which Bob says is “absolutely crucial to the negotiations” and where a decision will be made, reinforced with: “We are a democratic organisation and the decision is not mine to take,” though it appears he did take the decision by himself to enter into negotiations with Cllr. Adams.
The bizarre blogpost gets even more bizarre because Cllr. Kilmister then goes on to discredit Cllr. Adams and says it is “clear” that he “has no intention of resigning.”
“The Opposition is not capable of bringing him down and only those in his own Group can currently do that.”
It seems delusional that Cllr. Kilmister’s plan for Cllr. Adams is “bringing him down” yet at the same time he’s considering a coalition to allow Cllr. Adams to preserve his hold on power by the slimmest of majorities.
In the unlikely event that this is part of a cunning plan, we should reserve some credit for Cllr. Kilmister. It’s occurred to JW that the Alliance’s double-dealing despot may get his wish, and an Alliance/IPPG coalition may actually succeed in “bringing him down.”
Such a coalition could be the final council disaster that prompts the Welsh Government to parachute in the commissioners to administer the authority and place it in special measures. That would certainly have the effect of removing Cllr. Adams’ hands from all levers of power.
“Are there 30 pieces of silver involved anywhere in these negotiations?”
— Jason LewisWe may never know the logic behind the coalition discussions, but you can guarantee that juicy wads of cash for high positions will play their part.
Speaking of which, Cllr. Kilmister’s blogpost outlines his own knowledge of a rumour that’s been doing the rounds for days among County Hall circles: that the IPPG’s Cllr. Brian Hall is plotting with a number of colleagues to form a breakaway group which will leave the IPPG without its majority, which currently stands at 31-29.
The suggestion is pretty clear: if Cllr. Hall’s breakaway group gets off the ground, it would force Cllr. Adams into forming a coalition with it to maintain his majority status and position as leader, presumably in exchange for one or both of the two vacant cabinet posts, or even the deputy leadership.
Cllr. Kilmister writes: “The thought of Cllr Hall being back in a position of real power should be enough to send shivers down anyone’s spine. It would seem that the only way to stop this happening may be a Coalition involving the Pembrokeshire Alliance, which is why we are talking with the IPPG.”
It would seem to this author that the only thing Cllr. Kilmister wants to stop is Cllr. Hall signing the dotted line on the sordid deal before he does. And as for shivers going down spines, he’s bang on the money, if you’ll excuse the pun.
That the Alliance – or, to be precise, any of its three councillors – would even comprehend the idea of jumping into bed with the IPPG tells a lot.
That it would enter into negotiations with Cllr. Adams without consultation with any of its supporters who disagree with the idea – including its constitutionally elected-president – says so much more.
Even if nothing comes of this latest bungle, nobody can be in any doubt: the Pembrokeshire Alliance is based upon the very same premise of the IPPG: power, positions and payments – it just wants you to think it’s democratic and above all of that.
Whilst its supporters out on the streets of towns and villages across Pembrokeshire are no doubt well-meaning, well-intentioned and amenable to its talk of openness and democratic accountability which is in stark contrast to that of the IPPG, when it comes to County Hall there isn’t much that separates the Pembrokeshire Alliance from the shady ruling cabal, and there would be less still if the coalition goes through.
The Pembrokeshire Alliance Party has been regarded as a laughing stock by quite a few since it was launched in November last year. Even I’ve had the odd laugh at their expense.
However, the bare-faced hypocrisy of yesterday’s repugnant announcement will show its followers – in an unfortunately bruising manner, perhaps – that, at the very first whiff, the Alliance’s councillors were unable to resist temptation and were prepared to indulge in the sort of back-scratching patronage that’s blighted Pembrokeshire politics for generations, and which they professed to oppose.
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As a newly elected County Councillor it was always my intention during my initial months to observe and absorb Pembrokeshire County Council from within the ‘corridors of power’.
During the first two years of my ‘apprenticeship’ I have witnessed what can only be described as a circus at County Hall.
The ringleader with his pot of gold has orchestrated his monkeys to jump through hoops with ease. His loyal sheep have followed him blindly to the precipice where they now find themselves, many I may add in complete silence and without question.
But now the silence of the lambs has been broken as a weighty penny has finally dropped and the big top is about to fall with the monkeys scurrying for cover.
This latest development however beggars belief.
The pot of gold is still holding its gravitational pull on those who are enticed by its lure. Let us not forget that during these difficult financial times Jamie Adams saw fit to create an additional cabinet post which attracted a handsome annual allowance, at the very time that he should be looking to reduce his cabinet members.
So if the PA want to recover some credibility I would suggest that any special responsibility that comes their way is carried out on a purely voluntary basis.
After all, they have the best interests of the people at the heart of their manifesto and I eagerly await the details of their transparent talks with Cllr Adams.
I am absolutely staggered. Can this be the same Bob Kilmister who only last Monday told the Corporate Governance Committee that he couldn’t possibly work with Jamie Adams as he found him so untrustworthy?
The opposition members in County Hall at this time need to hold their nerve, with the present odious corrupt administration on the edge of total collapse.
Its majority is currently down to one. Now is not the time to throw them lifelines in the form of dubious deals.
Typical of a failed Lib Dem I suppose. Remember how they bought the student vote at the last general election with their cast iron promise on student fees. Should we be surprised?
We might as well all give up. How can someone move from one extreme position to another? We are all concerned about Pembrokeshire, but supporting what has gone before is not the way forward.
We learn from history to avoid making the same mistakes and I know this goes against everything Cllr Ken Rowlands believes in, forget it and move on is his well rehearsed mantra.
Please Bob, stop now, we do not want you to be accused of being another Bob-a-job.
Coalitions have their place, but not with a group that will happily sack two deputy leaders and two Cabinet members and continues to support the unsupportable. If you haven’t read yesterday’s Pembrokeshire Herald they also put pressure on their own members – speak to Cllr Dave Simpson and Cllr Peter Morgan.
It didn’t take long for the KNS Politburo to fall in line with their Kremlin pay masters.
Or do we take the 30 pieces of silver on offer and run as mentioned by Jason Lewis? No doubt there is no fence sitting on this one.
Well done Hayley Wood for having the moral and political conviction to stand tall. It should be the Executive Committee of a party which leads its Councillors, not the other way around.
Perhaps one of the fleas from the IPPG has already jumped and the tail wagging is spreading?
I opened a gambit in an earlier post about a curveball coming from the left side but I didn’t expect it to be in the form of a Judas. So the loyal IPPG sheep who have munched on the grass sown in Adams’ farmyard have been trampled on by the Farmer himself, like BPJ, his Deputy Dawgs et al. Just how far into the pig sty does Farmer Adams have to crawl to keep his snout in the trough?
Dave Edwards says no comment needed. Maybe the time for talking has indeed ended and the Council in its current format should be disbanded? 2017 is such a long way off now. The People of Pembrokeshire must have a voice and the WAG must hear it.
I like the suggestion of Jacob for leader, Mike as deputy and who ever else they feel fit. Hmm, we struggle. Ah well, you have my vote… Please enter your names into the frame. We all know Pembrokeshire expects… Come on guys, stand up to the plate. My vote is 100% behind you.
Wow! What a shocker! I almost almost almost can’t believe what I’m reading.
I note Bob Kilmister is putting this furore down to a big misunderstanding of his initial post where he said he had “entered into negotiations”.
He says his use of the word “negotiations” instead of “discussions” caused the misunderstanding and hence the furore.
There was no misunderstanding, Bob.
It didn’t matter which word you used, it’s that you’ve even considered the proposal and met up with Jamie that’s the cause of the great stink.
How could you?
Don’t insult the intelligence of your supporters even further than you did by failing to mention this to them until after you met up with the Leader in your one to one meeting.
My own theory is quite a convincing one, even if I dare say so myself. Methinks Bob knew all along the idea would go down badly, and the reason he sat on it for so long before telling the rest of his party members is because he was first waiting to see what Jamie was offering before deciding to drop the bad news on them.
If Jamie wasn’t offering a meaty enough bone, Bob would have politely declined and there would have been no need for anybody else to ever know that he seriously considered the proposal, or even that there was any proposal at all, if we think about it.
The beauty of my theory is that because Bob ultimately did decide to come clean with his members (and in the most public and spectacularly backfiring method imaginable) we can deduce that in his eyes the Deputy Leadership position WAS a meaty enough bone to gamble on and WAS worth shitting on the Alliance’s carpet for!
Good on yer Bob! Maybe Jamie will accept you into the IPPG on your own. You never know, he might even offer you the Deputy Leadership!
Deputy Leader? Thank goodness, Bob has come to save us simple Pembrokeshire folk from ourselves and guide us to a better tomorrow. Hold the front page.
Jonathan Nutting,
I have no desire to be leader, deputy leader or anything else.
You have to understand that, for a democracy to work, you need someone to hold power and someone to make sure they don’t abuse it.
I am more than comfortable in this second role.
The problem with “Gizza job” Bob is that he is not content to be a member of the opposition. He feels he deserves a seat at the top table.
So, when the Leader whispered sweet nothings in his ear, Bob got carried away and the entirely predictable result is that the Pembrokeshire Alliance is now a credibility-free zone.
As Victor Meldrew would have said “I don’t believe it”. How can BK have any credibility now?
What hope for the Pembrokeshire Alliance that put forward a manifesto that we all want?
There is nothing wrong with entering into negotiations or discussions – what is wrong is agreeing to abide by any conditions whatever, including confidentiality with a despot reliant on secret behind the scenes dodgy deals and carrot dangling.
There is an argument for some secret societies and whether you agree or not, many good and principled people belong to them. County Hall is not the place to operate secretly, it is the place for visible democracy.
Sadly and shockingly, Councillor Kilmister has fallen at the first fence – but of course, he might be stifled by his agreement and unable to defend his position.
I feel gutted just as I did at the defection of my own Councillor, Stephen Joseph.
What a bloody shambles!! I am beginning to wonder if Councillor Kilmister is being turned into Pembrokeshire’s unwitting ‘Vidkun Quisling.’
If Bob and the boys thought that they were Jamie’s first choice for propping up his dwindling gang then they are deluded.
Natural choice were the Tories and I am certain an approach will have been made and considered. However, twitchy Stephen Crabb MP will have put the brakes on fearing public backlash especially with the Westminster elections around the corner.
Well, Jamie’s wrong-footed me on that one. I’d assumed he was lining up Peter Morgan as the next Deputy…
In an earlier post I wrote that anyone accepting a post from Jamie would be committing political suicide.
So well done Bob, you fell for the trap and proved that your political nous does not match your gift of the gab.
Jamie is a clever lad. He has destroyed a budding political opposition with one move. How many more can he take with him into political obscurity?
Keanjo, you’re almost correct, but as we can see, the Alliance didn’t even need to accept a post to commit political suicide. Merely being seen considering it saw to that.
I can’t help but feel sorry for the Alliance’s supporters, and I sensed even Jacob feels a shred of sympathy for the way they’ve been duped. Maybe they can dust themselves down and come back, but I think it’s a tall order to rebuild faith. Even I had more hope for them than this.
By the way Keanjo I loved your comment on the WT web site. I’d rephrase it thus: the Pembrokeshire Alliance is Nutting but a laughing Stock. It set out to Kilmister Jamie Adams’s council leadership, but all it succeeded in bumping off was the Alliance’s credibility! The so called IPPG ‘alternative’ has Petered out and is just Bobbing lifelessly in the Cleddau near the Kremlin.
I have heard of a person shooting themselves in the foot but I think this leader has shot himself between the eyes.
Can you hear that? That’s the sound of the integrity of the Pembrokeshire Alliance slamming the door behind it on the way into the political wilderness.
One person I feel sorry for is Cllr Jonathan Nutting, who I don’t believe had any interest in power or money when he got into this. If the Alliance wishes to continue as a political force then it must rid itself of the embarrassment of Messrs Kilmister and Stock, who I feel are all too hungry for a seat at the big boys’ table and all of the trappings that go with it.
The Alliance will just have to carry on with one voice on PCC (JN), but at least they can hold their heads high without the Bob and Pete Sideshow to drag them down. If, however this is not to be, then Cllr Nutting should surely be considering distancing himself from the whole sorry affair and sitting on the PCC as an independent. Just saying like…
Bob Kilmister may fit in well in the IPPG. With his excuses since the news broke it seems he’s cut from the same cloth as Jamie Adams. Totally offloading any morals in return for cash rewards and trying to dress it up as a positive. How ridiculous does the Alliance look now? It’s unbelievable.
I’ve read Nutting’s justifications over on the WT comments and to even CONSIDER laying down with the IPPG dogs is unthinkable for any decent right thinking person. The simple choice is the right choice, remain in opposition until these rotten b*****ds are brought to book.
Nobody cares, as Nutting puts it, that Adams “has a young family, a wife and friends who care for him”. It’s the people of Pembrokeshire that are being wronged here not Adams and his cronies.
The only reason Adams has gone to the Alliance is because it’s gullible and he needs someone gullible because the Tories won’t side with him because Crabb can’t have an upset electorate this close to a general election and Adams is terrified of Brian Hall taking a few of his supporters away and forcing himself and John Allen-Mirehouse back into the cabinet. Jesus, imagine those two dinosaurs back in the thick of it!!!
Whatever decision BK and the PA make now they’ve lost any credibility they had. Not that many of us saw them as anything but a joke right from the start.
Join with the IPPG and they’ll have to vote along party lines INCLUDING rubber stamping Bryn’s golden handshake, these people make me feel physically sick.
I find this quite unbelievable. The whole issue of whether Jamie Adams stays or goes preferably the latter still remains. Ceredigion CC must be very worried.
Sooner rather than later the WG are going to have to do something about the shambles at PCC because it is beginning to bring into question their ability to “govern” Wales when they have a county where the governing body would appear to be so rotten to the core that it causes an embarrassment to the WG.
The logical answer to the WG would be to force the merger of either two or the three counties and this farce at PCC is going to likely give them the opportunity and the excuse they need to justify the merger. We have witnessed this farce roll out before us for nearly a year now in the full public gaze and still it goes on and still people say “I don’t believe it” and “how can this be allowed to continue” but it does.
In the meantime the IPPG and various other members squabble among themselves and this continuing farce is now a disgrace.
I see Kilmister hasn’t defended himself on these pages, maybe the maths question to post a comment is too difficult for him.
Bob, I know you read these comments, I have one question for you:
DID JAMIE ADAMS OFFER YOU THE POSITION OF DEPUTY LEADER?
Please answer yes/no.
Since publishing this article which quotes comments from Facebook, Bob Kilmister has blocked me from the Pembrokeshire Alliance’s Facebook group!
So much for openness, transparency and accountability!
I’ve asked Bob Kilmister the same question on the Pembrokeshire Alliance Facebook page. He answered it like you might expect.
“An offer” WAS made and that’s all he’s saying. It’s comical the way he’s trying to appear credible after this crass episode, this is how it happened:
And as for blocking you Jacob…*shakes head*!
Looks like he’s blocked me too now, ne’mind 🙂
Just when you thought things couldn’t get any more crazy at PCC.
Martin, I’ve just responded to that Facebook thread between you and Bob on the Alliance’s page, asking Bob the following. I’ll let you know if he replies:
Nothing surprises me about PCC any more. My local councillor Mike James follows his leader more meekly than the lamb to the slaughter. IPPG is finished and corruption will end soon.
Let me suggest a different perspective – realpolitik, it’s like pragmatism or being a realist – British Governments have over the decades had to deal with terrorists from many countries – not just Ireland.
Where are those killers and terrorists now? Having a lovely time guzzling horse’s doovers with the Queen.
So Bob now says “There is no spin on this except from those who oppose what we stand for. What is on Jacob Williams site is not accurate”.
That’s a typical fascist IPPG mentality there, similar to the straw man argument.
Anybody [and in this case Bob singles out Jacob but he means everybody] who doesn’t agree that the Pembrokeshire Alliance is the best thing since sliced bread must automatically be against the platitudinous morals and principles that the Alliance claims to embody.
What utter deceptive tosh.
I say “claims to embody” because recent events have clearly shown that despite ‘talking the talk’, when it comes to ‘walking the walk’, a seat in the First Class carriage of the gravy train makes for a more comfortable journey that’s hard to resist.
This is a total disaster for the Alliance, and the more I hear the less I feel sorry for anybody associated with it.
How dare they claim anyone who disagrees with them or is criticising the Alliance doesn’t care about the fair and proper governance of the council and wellbeing of the county.
They formed a political block,
But instead of three lions
The Pembrokeshire Alliance,
Was shown up as a bit of a crock.
Jacob, although you have been blocked from the Pembrokeshire Alliance Facebook group, presumably by Bob without any backing from his membership, you have left your site open to him.
Come on Kilmister, why don’t you take the opportunity to reply to these criticisms. Come on, come on, we are all waiting!
Bob has given me a brief response: “I will make a post on your website on Friday.”
Pembrokeshire must be a laughing stock, my American relations have been watching goings on and find it similar to their elections where some people are only there for the money.
This debate goes much deeper now than the Pembrokeshire Alliance Councillors doing their own thing or consulting with their executive committee and members.
Jamie Adams’ review of the IPPG has broken new ground. He was undoubtedly aware over the last fortnight of his members requesting papers to resign from the IPPG and with it his control of Pembrokeshire Council. He is canny enough to understand that if the IPPG lose control of the Council this will necessitate him resigning his leadership of the IPPG.
I have no doubt the main Pembrokeshire political parties are distancing themselves from the current situation, with a general election in 2015. Would their respective executive committees seriously look at taking the leadership of Pembrokeshire Council on as a viable proposition in the pre election build up?
Therefore who else can Jamie Adams entice to hold his control of the Council but the Pembrokeshire Alliance.
He has been very astute in his manoeuvring in the past fortnight where to the general public there seems to have been some high level casualties. Scratching the surface a little deeper reveals there may well be an opportunity for Bob Kilmister to join the Cabinet after Monday, alongside one other, possibly Peter Stock. This is a little like the current Conservative/Lib Dem scenario at Westminster where Nick Clegg is merely a token gesture appointment to ensure David Cameron holds sway. Jamie Adams still has the loyalty of Huw George and Rob Lewis on the Cabinet and the situation will continue to be tightly controlled.
Those IPPG Councillors who have supported Jamie Adams are really important to this debate and it is their understanding of the current situation which cannot be underestimated. I would assume they have been spoken to by Jamie Adams as to his plans and for their thoughts on forming a leadership group including the Pembrokeshire Alliance. If they haven’t then Jamie Adams is certainly now reliant on Bob Kilmister supporting him as otherwise this may well blow up in his face.
Some questions to mull over…
Pembrokeshire Alliance: Where do you stand on the scenario of merging with Ceredigion Council, either voluntarily or through the Welsh Government? You have some vociferous supporters of being Pembrokeshire so would you support such consultation and investigation into a merger at this stage?
Why has Bob Kilmister accepted keeping the negotiations with Jamie Adams a secret?
One of your TICKs was Transparency and another Keeping your promises. Why have your executive committee not formulated a proactive response as opposed to allowing Bob Kilmister to be the negotiator?
If you wish to regain some credibility then these negotiations need to be furthered by person(s) other than Bob Kilmister. If there are roles on the Cabinet available to you as a party would you choose who to appoint to them or is Jamie’s offer specific to a particular individual(s) as opposed to the party in general?
Jamie Adams: If the Pembrokeshire Alliance don’t accept your offer and those IPPG members who are considering resigning do so, where then will you turn?
Martin! Nutting here. I’ll answer questions.
I think you need to read what I said in the WT more carefully. You seem to have missed the point.
Mike, good poem 🙂 Viv asked me where I found time in my busy life to paint. I wonder if the Merlot will help me improve my eloquence to your level? Real ale I am afraid dulls and not enlightens. Another change in my lifestyle would seem to be in order.
Like you, I stand up for principle too. It is not exclusive to bloggers.
Can someone tell me what happened to Pembrokeshire’s real problems?
1. Stringent cuts and the real human costs that these will entail.
2. The WAG proposed destruction of OUR county.
Ah sorry, these are not juicy and titillating. Just REAL…ah well…write on.
As I care. What you write does hurt. But hey…I’m a pollutitionist sorry politician so my skin is thickening 🙂
Damn took three times to get the sum right. Martin I need your help…
Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme.
Oh dear, forget my earlier post. It looks increasingly like Cllr Nutting has been indoctrinated into believing that taking the grubby IPPG pay cheque and a comfy chair is the best way to “help” the county.
Funny, we haven’t heard much from Bob and Pete, they must be busy pulling strings. Ah well, there goes the Pembrokeshire Alliance…waste of what was a good idea.
Good evening, Jon.
1. Cuts affecting Pembrokeshire are coming from Westminster, Cardiff Bay and Haverfordwest. Every council across the UK is belt-tightening, but you must be suggesting Pembrokeshire could somehow be different and avoid that. If it’s even possible, I can’t see how the Alliance (and only the Alliance) could achieve this.
2. Most people with an interest in council affairs believe that the current IPPG regime – which Bob entered coalition negotiations with – is to blame for the ‘destruction of OUR county’ (your words, not mine) yet you are suggesting the media and bloggers should shoulder the blame.
The message seems quite clear to me: the Alliance was formed and supported by well-meaning county residents who believed that the IPPG was rotten to the core and was to blame for the outrageous things that have happened over recent years and continue to happen in the council chamber and other places. They opposed the IPPG to the max, and what it stands for.
I think they still do. They used to believe that the Alliance shared their views and was the platform for effecting some change for the better. That faith was shattered upon Bob’s announcement that he had entered coalition negotiations, regardless of how far he had gone down the path. It’s that he even considered it.
You refer on Facebook to ‘sensationalism’ of the Alliance’s predicament. The resignations I mentioned in my blogpost (and I’m aware of more since) had been tendered before I published. Similarly, the scores of online comments expressing outrage had been flooding in for over 24 hours before I posted.
You can’t blame me or anybody else for the Alliance’s downfall. It’s possible that your paid-up members may be able to move on from this – but remember, it’s not your party members that matter for the Alliance’s survival or success.
The Alliance is a political party which intends – or intended – to field candidates in future council elections. That requires the Alliance to have credibility, in order that the Pembrokeshire population will place their faith in the party and its candidates at the ballot box.
Bob’s bombshell destroyed any credibility that existed in the Alliance, and I can’t really see how that can be restored.
With the IPPG mafia on the verge of imploding out of a Kremlin cauldron and into the fire, pops politically naive PA man. But let’s not be distracted for too long, the main issue is elsewhere. It’s deep within our Local Authority and the IPPG cronies that the problem lies.
After all, the PA turncoat issue was hidden in plain sight.
On 15th May at Pembroke Town Council there was a vote of no confidence in Jamie Adams, the Leader of the IPPG.
Cllr Nutting did not vote for the motion but said he would like to talk to Jamie Adams and perhaps send a letter to PCC (not the IPPG leader, note). Now there’s a principle for you.
12th September – PCC EGM – Vote of no confidence in Jamie Adams, Leader of the council and IPPG. Signatories to the motion were Pembrokeshire Alliance members Jonathan Nutting and Bob Kilmister. In front of the webcams, Nutting votes for the motion. Now there’s a principle for you.
3rd October – Bob Kilmister, Leader of the Pembrokeshire Alliance enters into negotiations with Jamie Adams the Leader of Pembrokeshire County Council about a possible coalition agreement with the IPPG. Now there’s a principle for you.
However let’s not be distracted. The IPPG has to go and go soon. Either the IPPG sheep leave for other flocks and allow the main Local Authority pus filled sore to be exorcised or we reluctantly resort to WAG intervention. Either is better than what we have now.
Save what we’ve got now? You must be joking. Replace it with something totally new and honest or let’s have intervention now. Change, total uncorrupted change is essential. The PA are just a side issue because whilst we are distracted looking at PA turncoat man, the more serious issues regarding previous maladministration, fraud, intimidation etc. within the Local Authority are no doubt being buried and new ones to replace them are being dreamed up.
No one in the IPPG cares about the effect of budget cuts on us and their staff. They are just a political tool for them to play with and the PA will not affect that outcome.
If Jon is so worried about his numerical ability then he’ll surely be looking forward to all the help he’ll be getting from that maestro of the divine abacus, Huw George.
Bob refusing to make a comment until Friday gives a whole new meaning to “Bob on Friday”!
Thanks Cllr Nutting for at least showing your face, you haven’t gone into hiding like Cllr Kilmister. I don’t envy him having to devise an explanation. He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t, but will be digging the hole further if he blames anything but himself.
Martin, Keanjo, my suspicion was that the Alliance’s Facebook group was battened down because of certain individuals in there posting angry messages creating holy hell, particularly the lady talking about an ‘inquest’.
There is no pleasure taking you back along my well trodden pathway of comments but it’s a case of ‘I told you so’. The KNS have been built on the Pembrokeshire Promise! TICK LIST? How about: Trickery; Ineptitude; Confused; Kicked out!
I’ve issued a plea for our Council to have a controlling oversight from a political party. Farmer Adams and the Cabinet just wouldn’t, in fact couldn’t get away with what they have done under a true political umbrella. Manure would have been dumped under any administration but it would have been used appropriately to benefit the County, not left in front of the Kremlin like Farmer Adams has done to fester.
Snouts in troughs? Rats up drain pipes? Gravy trains? I can see a lot of brown sticky stuff hitting the fan from the start of tomorrow’s Cabinet meeting.
This is the beginning of the end. WAG led cuts, with compulsory job losses for our dedicated staff in the pipeline. Just how much money has been spent on the infighting and on repaying WEFO? Not enough to save everyone’s jobs but perhaps enough for us to hold a candle to the future.
The IPPG and Farmer Adams will be lucky to hold any control by the next scheduled full council meeting. WAG will be in. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a job advert appear for a full time WAG role for overseeing our Council!
This leaves the KNS Alliance back where they began, on a whim and a prayer. You talked the talk but couldn’t walk the walk.
Actually Jacob I do not blame you for anything to do with the Alliance’s ‘fall.’ Our problems arise from trying to be open and accountable, at the wrong time and in the wrong place.
Do you think we are so arrogant that we expect to achieve anything as a small seemingly insignificant group? Anglesey went into special measures as a result of bickering amongst its councillors. It would appear any voice of reason is met at the moment with disgust and horror.
I’m beginning to think that I waste my breath. If we are not allowed to talk to one another then it is time for the WAG to take an interest. I don’t like what has and is happening within the council. I don’t and never have liked the disgraceful antics of the collective IPPG leadership. I have expressed this in the past. My views have not changed.
Negotiation was and is an inappropriate word. Negotiations can only take place once agreement has been achieved by ALL those concerned. That obviously has not happened and is patently not going to be happen.
It is sad that those who care have absolutely no confidence in the vast majority of their elected members. It is also sad that they have so little trust, that any error in wording is met with a torrent of abuse and disgust.
I don’t think bloggers should shoulder the blame. I think blame should be shouldered collectively. I feel I have failed. I certainly have little or no ability to change things on my own. Trying to start a group was trying to make a difference. That does appear to have been a failure.
I would like to ask you what you think is the answer to our problems. You know as I do that individuals are always going to be marginalised. Well meaning independents will be picked off by the collective vultures. Yet you debase our attempts whatever we do or say. Your penultimate paragraph clearly shows the contempt you feel. Tell me how we solve the problem of making our county council work. Are you in the vociferous group calling for the WAG taking over in Pembrokeshire?
The Alliance may die as a result of a couple of poorly worded remarks. I am not sure if I have not added to this by trying to take a stance for what I see as decency. Be assured of one thing though I will fight tooth and nail for the core beliefs that we expressed.
Rather than just asking the questions Jacob start giving one or two of the answers.
1. How do we achieve consensus and a new leadership with the council?
2. Should we have a 2/3 party system as some suggest or is it ideal to have no groups at all?
3. Do you think we are past redemption and the WAG should be encouraged to step in.
4. Who is capable of moving us forward or should we just wither and die (would appear to be a happy thought to one or two 😉 ).
I suggested you take up the baton. Why not have a go? It would appear to be an ideal solution for some of your followers. I am quite happy to give you my support and a chance to make a real difference.
In answer to ‘The Rock’ about why I did not support the motion in Pembroke Town Council.
I believe that everyone has a right to voice their opinion. My voting record in PCC is well known. My reason for abstaining was I wanted my fellow town councillors to listen to Cllr. Adams first. If I vote against someone I want to be able to look them in the face. I have fallen foul once about predetermination I do not intend to make that mistake again. Is free speech wrong? Should we prejudge?
Jon, I didn’t actually pose any questions to you in my previous comment, though I did respond to your previous questions to me, and I’m quite happy to respond to your new ones too.
Before I do though, I think I’ve made myself clear but I’ll say it again, just to be sure – I disagree that this latest episode can be put down to what you call “a couple of poorly worded remarks.”
Your supporters clearly oppose the IPPG and would not even entertain the idea of coalescing with them. Full stop. Yet Bob entered coalition negotiations with them. And then, only a day after he had called for Jamie Adams’ resignation because he couldn’t trust him!
If he had said “entered discussions” instead of “entered negotiations,” it would make no difference – he met Jamie on Tuesday and entertained the idea so much that he was eventually going to put it to your party’s executive committee.
Not only that, but on Facebook Bob said:
Well in fact I am in possession of an email Bob sent out to Alliance members on Saturday. I wasn’t intending to bring it up but I will now, because it reveals something interesting about Bob’s Facebook announcement.
In Saturday’s email, Bob says:
So the day before when Bob posted on Facebook: “Bob Kilmister Leader of the Pembrokeshire Alliance has today entered into negotiations…” he had actually entered into negotiations (or considerations, if you’d rather) three days earlier, on the Tuesday morning.
That’s three days’ thinking time (during which you also were a part of considerations, so it would be unfair to let Bob carry the can on his own) before putting it to your ‘executive committee’ – though I note Bob’s keenness to point out that the Alliance’s councillors could have taken any decision on the offer alone, and without any reference to the executive or any of its members. Some charm!
As for your questions, they are rather broad, but I’ll try.
1. Your question rather assumes that I wish to achieve consensus with the IPPG. Consensus politics on some issues may work, but as a rule, I prefer for cases to be argued – debates do happen, but often with the wrong results. Not much comes from the IPPG at all, and what does, I often don’t support, and vice versa. Think how many proposals opposition members have put forward to make the council more ‘open and transparent’ and accountable that have been routinely voted down by the majority of IPPG members, even though it’s obvious it’s against the wishes of their voters. Rolling out webcasting. My proposal for public question time is still languishing in the long grass after over a year. I even remember Bob Kilmister voted down my attempt to increase the number of full council meetings!
Opposition members and groups refusing to get into bed with them at the first sniff would be a start though, and could break up the IPPG’s stranglehold and majority status. Then, if not consensus, at least those in administration would have to win the arguments, rather than the votes.
2. There can be no limit on the parties/groups that contest/win council elections, however I suspect you’re referring to what Jon Boy Jovi always bangs on about and that many of us are sick of hearing (it’s true, sorry Jon Boy!) that we need a mainstream political party and that’s our only saviour to govern the county.
I disagree with Jon Boy Jovi. The Pembrokeshire people overwhelmingly vote against party politics on the council, so even if I agreed, there is no practical way of achieving it, it’s in the hands of the voters. However what the voters can’t be sure about is whether their so-called independent councillors will form a political group after they are elected. Though that’s what you’ve actually done so I’ll leave my comment there I think! Apart from saying: when it’s been put to Jon Boy Jovi that the council is littered with councillors who were elected under his beloved party tickets, yet now sit in the council’s governing group (Cllrs. Llewellyn, Perkins, Frayling, Rowlands, Hancock, and at one stage, Joseph) he hasn’t really got any answer.
3. No. I don’t think the Welsh Government will send in commissioners, if they had any intention of doing that they’d have done it numerous times over by now. If by ‘past redemption’ you mean ‘is there any chance Pembrokeshire can survive as a unitary authority,’ I would like Pembrokeshire to remain as a single council, and do not wish for an amalgamation. I also think the Welsh Government’s intentions are quite clear, and of all Welsh councils, ours has a very weak case to argue that it’s capable of handling its affairs. It is patently not capable across many fronts.
4. Are you asking me who is capable of moving the Alliance forward, or moving the council forward?
If the former, I hear that Brian Hall is looking to complete his return from the wilderness years back to the front-line of Pembrokeshire politics.
If the latter, I hear that Brian Hall is looking to complete his return from the wilderness years back to the front-line of Pembrokeshire politics.
A political party can have two purposes: either it is a pressure group campaigning for a single cause (or a parcel of interconnected causes), or its purpose is attaining power.
The problem, as it appears to me, is that the Alliance has fallen between those two stools.
Its primary raison d’etre, or rallying point for its supporters, is a reaction to or rejection of the IPPG and what it represents in Pembrokeshire’s fractured political landscape.
The above being the case, achieving a political end by even considering entering into a form of power sharing with the IPPG (let alone actually doing so), appears likely to alienate members and will have an adverse impact on the Alliance’s credibility with lay voters.
There are times when politicians have to be prepared to step up to the challenge of accepting influence and power when it is presented to them. There are also times when politicians have to stick to their principled positions, or at least not consider reversing those espoused only 24 hours earlier.
The question that arises from the foregoing is not whether the damage could have been foreseen, but why it was not blindingly obvious what the reaction would be?
There is an argument to be had about the sterility of opposition for the sake of opposition, or opposition without offering a constructive and thought out alternative. There can, however, be little argument that if your first premise is that the IPPG is “a bad thing”, you cannot but expect there to be some cynicism if you determine that you can disinfect it by joining in.
In a sense, the proposal for joining into a coalition with the IPPG sounds rather like trying to cure the Ebola virus by injecting the patient with several litres of mineral water. You might briefly dilute the virus in the bloodstream but you will not stop its progress.
Incredibly, Pembrokeshire’s two leading political opposites are about to act out the territorial and political rearrangements of the Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939.
Jonathan Nutting said: “It is sad that those who care have absolutely no confidence in the vast majority of their elected members. It is also sad that they have so little trust, that any error in wording is met with a torrent of abuse and disgust”
100% correct JN, the elected members have behaved appallingly in putting money and impropriety first rather than listen to the electorate.
Any error in wording is a cop out as it leads to the wilful semantics that politicians twist and turn into the opposite of what you say in the first place.
The Alliance is bringing Pembrokeshire down with such scheming. The electorate’s disgust knows no bounds when turning your back on the voters and taxpayers.
Surely all the people of Pembrokeshire want is a council that respects employees and provides good services, amongst many others.
What they do not want are councillors who are in power just to further their own bank balances, staff who are afraid in the workplace and dishonesty amongst those that ‘lead’.
Perhaps an intervention by the Welsh government is what is needed. The situation could not be any worse than it is now. Something needs to happen.
The credibility of this council could not get any worse and 2017 is a long way away!
Looks like the committee Old Grumpy was on has been nobbled, he’s resigned. Can the machinations of the PCC thugs go any lower? I bet they will.
PD Girl totally reflects my opinion, I’m not going to dilute by adding anything.
I am sorry PD Girl but as far as I know no Pembrokeshire County Councillor has been convicted or even charged with enhancing their bank balance by illegitimate means.
I would question how county councillors, including some from Pembroke Dock, can be in full time employment and also carry out their scrutiny duties at County Hall.
I would suggest that all seminars organised for county councillors should be open to the public.
A great deal of faith is being placed at the door of the Welsh Assembly when only a minority of the people of Wales voted for it.
Old Grumpy has confirmed what was revealed in the Herald with regard to the evidence given to the hearing by Edwards/Morgan. What hope is there when councillors are pressured by others to withhold or vary evidence to support the unsupportable.
It is of significance that the Monitoring Officer, impartial and of the ultimate rectitude, should advise a witness on possibly avoiding making an appearance, rather than supporting the members of the investigatory committee in their attempt to gain the truth.
To cap it all, the Alliance has caught the IPPG disease (the political equivalent of Ebola), leaving the door open to the new reformed Brian Hall to carry the day. Hey ho, can it get worse?
For anyone interested in how democracy works in Pembrokeshire, a transcript of Jamie Adams’ speech at the IPPG’s recruitment meeting following the 2012 election can be found on the county’s premier political website at:
http://oldgrumpy.co.uk/archived/Jamie%20adams.html
Malcolm Calver is right that no county councillors have been convicted or charged with illegitimately enhancing their bank balances – this doesn’t mean that some haven’t done this, only that they have got away with it – see Old Grumpy’s ‘Time Lord’.
I could also argue that a councillor in that position for his own ends rather than those who he is supposed to represent, gains financially through illegitimate means.
In reference to the Welsh Assembly, a majority of those who voted were in favour of it. How many people voted for those seated in the House of Lords?
My apologies in advance if I sicken you with my bleating about a Political ticket in Pembrokeshire, Jacob. I’m sure you suffer much less than those of us who witness the sickness bug which parades as Pembrokeshire Council.
Pembrokeshire people need to seriously look at who and why they are electing a candidate onto the Council. Councillors as individuals just don’t work Jacob and that takes nothing away from yourself, Old Grumpy and a handful more. Unbelievingly even the KNS Alliance could see that! To me let’s have some ownership, manifesto led planning and delivery on outcomes for the short and medium term. No independent Councillor can deliver this and they are delusional if they believe otherwise.
It is the way individual Councillors stick together like flies on manure and this substance does little, if anything to help our County. If the Council operated as a private company there would be wholesale changes to the way it’s being run, starting with IPPG members (Snoop Dog Summons apart) who have hoodwinked the electors. Undeniably Llewellyn, Perkins, Frayling, Rowlands, Hancock, and at one stage, Joseph all did the same. Public v Private; if they were Private they would have had their P45s a long time ago.
Simplistic answer; if you resign from your party, you resign your seat forcing a by-election. Likewise if you join a political group after being elected as an independent you trigger such a by-election. Our Councillors should be able to follow Adam Ant and “stand and deliver.”
Pembrokeshire needs to arrive in the 21st Century and arrive quickly; I will repeat again, this can only be done with a strong political background with experience, knowledge and a collective objective to build, improve and sustain the County. The IPPG, KNS and total Independents are fooling themselves and us if they think they can achieve this. Apologies once again to those independent Councillors who we all appreciate are the Council’s conscience but you have to be tarnished with the same brush.
An emergency 999 call to WAG is needed, in the hope they arrive in Pembrokeshire like an Ambulance within their target time.
Reading Old Grumpy tonight the transparency over the BPJ investigation is unbelievable. Just who have the people of Pembrokeshire elected as Councillors if they can’t speak the truth to a committee? Equally as important is those on the investigating committee who can’t see the truth which is as clear as the water off Broad Haven beach to the rest of Pembrokeshire.
I would love to know how KNS and some of the PA’s supporters like Andrew Lye would have reacted if 3 non-affiliated independent councillors had announced they were entering negotiations with the IPPG with a view to receiving cabinet positions and the accompanying remuneration, propping up the despicable group, dressed up as “doing what is in the best interests of Pembrokeshire”.
Hypocrites of the biggest kind, and where is Peter Stock in all this?
All I can see is an image of Bob Kilmister on the webcasts going on about Jamie and the IPPG’s lack of a moral compass. Oh the irony!!!
Being at heart a Lib-Dem, Bob Kilmister is trying to play Nick Clegg to Jamie Adams’ David Cameron.
Galf, more like Chamberlain to Hitler. A no win scenario if ever there was one.
Looks like BPJ will walk out with a payout negotiated by Jamie. Shady deals until the very end!
Jon Boy Jovi should learn another tune.
His constant harping on about political tickets is becoming rather tedious. And, what’s more, the evidence doesn’t support his thesis.
Caerphilly Council is made up of 50 Labour, 20 Plaid Cymru and 3 independent members and it is hardly a democratic Shangri-La.
Indeed, its chief executive is due to appear in court some time soon following a police investigation resulting from a public interest report by the Wales Audit Office into “unlawful” payments approved by a secret meeting of a Labour dominated committee.
Jon Boy Jovi should understand that it is not the composition of a council that is important, but its culture.
In 1995, candidates for the CEO position at the new Pembrokeshire County Council were asked to give presentation to the full interim council. The subject being:-
Was this the start of an officer led Council?
The success or failure of Farmer Adams’ latest IPPG rescue plan must surely come down to numbers, which quite frankly do not add up.
It looks like Jamie is relying on maintaining the status quo by simply replacing Brian Hall and his fellow conspirators with the PAG alliance.
However I am told Brian’s breakaway could reduce the IPPG ranks to 27. Bobby’s KNS alliance only numbers 3, and that is assuming Peter Stock is willing to play along which in my mind is doubtful to say the least. At best therefore this would leave the chamber split at 30-30, so no majority, leaving Brian still as the key player holding the trump card.
I also believe that there are a few other IPPG backbenchers poised to jump should Brian make a return to the Cabinet. All in all, things are not looking good for the farmer.
I worked in five County Councils in England and Wales over a 40 year career. The Councils were Labour, Conservative, and independent controlled and they all functioned effectively despite political differences. What has happened to reduce this Local Authority to such a dysfunctional rabble?
With the cuts imposed these last years and a staffing designed to manage a much larger budget, the County administration has some serious thinking to do. To my mind the only hope is for the present Cabinet to resign en bloc and the Council to elect another Leader and Cabinet capable of tackling the task ahead. Otherwise the WAG will be obliged to take over.
T – Together
E – Everyone
A – Achieves
M – More
Shame this motto does not apply in the Kremlin.
I’m with Old Grumpy. It’s the culture councillors create and operate in and a desire to honestly and democratically serve ALL of the electorate that’s important. Not what badge they wear and how much power they can control for their own self interest.
Old Grumpy is spot on with the culture change. However these Councillors have had the time to organise a night out in a brewery but not achieved it. Change it should be, and not a shuffling of independent bums on seats. It’s a shame all independents are tarred with the same brush but Pembrokeshire needs to get in the 21st Century.
Old Grumpy can raise a glass of Merlot for his identification of Caerphilly as a Labour party led Council in disarray, but what of those party politically led Councils which are well led?
Pembrokeshire remaining independent just won’t work. Look at the current whitewash happening over BPJ with a potential pay-off. Have we learnt nothing in having to deal with issues, rather than brushing them off like the Mik Smith case?
The Pembrokeshire independent conscience seems to have reached the bottom of the bottle. They can’t stop the IPPG, KNS or Brian Hall’s new group. Old habits die hard for Pembrokeshire Councillors and it’s about time WAG stepped in.
Old Grumpy, Jacob et al have a role as independents but you need to be like Alice in the looking glass and see what’s reflected back and I don’t mean through the bottom of an empty bottle.
Independent administrations in Pembrokeshire have massively failed so move on and let’s formulate a viable action plan for our County.
Can somebody please tell me how a majority out of 60 councillors elected on “independent” tickets are to prepare and gain mandated support from the electorate for their County wide policies?
John, your question highlights the need for political parties or groups to put forward manifestos for elections.
The notion that 60 independent members could decide how to spend a third of a billion pounds without thought out, cohesive policies stated in broad terms for the electorate to consider, seems fallacious. The lack of a set of principles agreed by members, endorsed by the electorate, leads to rule by officers with the consequences plain to see in Pembrokeshire.
Policies in the major areas of spend e.g. education, social care, economy, highways need to be set out clearly before elections, not cobbled up by officers and nodded through at the behest of the Leader who is enhancing the pay of a goodly number.
Having written or helped in the writing of the Labour manifesto for each PCC election since 1995 I know that our ideas do not find general acceptance in large, particularly rural areas of Pembrokeshire, but at least we have set them out clearly and presumably other parties do the same.
I have no problem with people standing as independents provided that they are honest about their reasons for standing, but I have no truck with those who lie to voters on their doorsteps when canvassing, pleading their independence knowing that they will be joining the IPG as soon as they are elected, if successful.
Jon Boy Jovi,
What evidence can you advance that ‘proper’ independent (unaligned/unaffiliated) councillors are tarred with the same brush as IPPG councillors?
You underestimate the public who are quite clear what the IPPG councillors are and what councillors ‘not affiliated to any group’ are, and I would actually even include the Pembrokeshire Alliance in there too, which has two members elected as independents, and who all served as unaligned immediately before forming their group, and apart from Peter Stock pre-2012 have no prior history with the IPPG.
I have never heard a suggestion that the Pembrokeshire public see unaligned and IPPG councillors as one and the same. In fact unaligned councillors are well known and respected in their own right as the voice of reason in the council, standing up for us and speaking out against the ruling party’s depravities.
They are respected FOR their independence and standpoints, and NOT tarred with the IPPG’s brush, similar to opposition group councillors, Michael Williams, Paul Miller, Bob Kilmister. Maybe not the Tories so much, but you get the point.
The problem is that the IPPG and the IPG before it buys off its members in exchange for compliance. How many unaligned councillors have a cabinet seat? That’s right! None! How many unaligned councillors are chairmen or chairwomen of committees? None again! Those councillors would surely be in the IPPG if they had gravy train ambitions, and that is what clearly separates the two types of ‘independent’ councillors in the public’s eye, plus unaligned councillors don’t look over their shoulders to see how they are expected to vote by other councillors.
So no. They are not all “tarred with the same brush.”
Dear Quill,
In a nutshell, no place for independents. As you point out the unaligned come under this statement. Dave Edwards is bang on the money: parties set out their policies and the voters then elect. The Pembrokeshire way of voting for Joe Bloggs cos he drinks every second Thursday in the local has to be left in the dark ages.
Look where voting for your friends has got us! Too many of the IPPG/KNS are people elected on this friendship ticket who then group together to lead us up the garden path.
Returning to Dave’s point, surely it’s better to know where, when, how and why our money is going to be earmarked for the duration of the Council’s term in advance? It would stop the unholy shenanigans and money being spent on outside legal advice as the cabinet can then be overseen and advised from a national party.
I’ll come at it again: how many of the electorate who have an independent Councillor today would vote them in again tomorrow?
If you weren’t going to vote them in again next time would you vote for another independent candidate or a candidate standing under a political umbrella?
Wake up and smell the coffee folks cos we’re on a precipice. I’ll guarantee one thing, if we return to Dyfed or something similar it won’t be an independent Council. Then watch how many ‘current independents’ stand under a political ticket!
Dave, as a believer in traditional local government, that is local issues determined by locals, backed by a mandate from an election, I just wonder how much “local” is left for County Councillors.
The examples you quoted, education, social services (ever closely being linked to health) economy and highways, all seem now to be directed by the Welsh Government more than ever before. Maybe this is a good thing to avoid the so called postcode lottery of standards, but how much “local” influence remains to be determined by local councillors?
For example, within the Hywel Dda Health Board area, is it right that residents in one constituent County should pay more for social care for hopefully the same standard of care, either through the council tax or through varying direct charges determined by each county council?
What relevance are the medieval county areas to a modern unit/area of administration?
I wonder if North Pembrokeshire folk have more in common with Ceredigion, whilst those in South Pembs. have more in common and perhaps look more to Carmarthen than mid-Pembrokeshire. I would be interested to hear thoughts on this.
I have heard about how bad the Old Dyfed was, mostly from Preseli Councillors, but I also recall, I think a South Pembs Councillor, saying that it wasn’t as bad as the current Pembrokeshire Council.
I can understand that councillors may well be protective of their allowances, but what democratic difference would it make to us mere residents.
I can understand that a low level of council tax means less in the way of services, but can this position be maintained, and if so, at what cost to services.
WE really do need to understand the money side of all this. I see from my 2014/15 rate demand notice that the Welsh Government’s formula based standard spending assessment (the need to spend) was £221m, whereas the Council net spending estimate was £207.2m. Is this a very crude measure of how low our council tax was? How much were the direct charges for services increased this year to maintain the lowest council tax in Wales?
The problem with the IPPG (and it affiliates) are the contemptible and scurrilous individuals involved!!!
Jon Boy Jovi please try to get real.You said: “I’ll guarantee one thing, if we return to Dyfed or something similar it won’t be an independent Council.”
If we return to Dyfed it is highly unlikely that any single party will have a majority.
The present situation in Carmarthenshire is that Labour and the independents (closet Tories) are in coalition.
These people are able to swallow any amount of ideological poison so long as they end up in power.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but as I see it, independent groups don’t have a manifesto. This makes it hard for voters to understand what their policies are, or to judge them at the end of their term of office. We need a clear understanding of a political group’s policies at the start of a term, if we are to hold them to account.
Jon Boy Jovi, the more you type the more you contradict yourself and the less credible your argument becomes. You ask who would ever elect independent councillors again, that’s a ridiculous question because Pembrokeshire people DO keep electing independent candidates, even the bad ones, and they say NO to party candidates. Consistently.
The council hasn’t all of a sudden become corrupt since the 2012 elections, it’s been a pit of despair for donkeys’ years, and the puppets and the puppet masters still keep winning re-election, many unopposed!
Just look at David Neale, never spoken in the council chamber, unopposed. Gravy train extraordinaire David Wildman, unopposed. Jamie Adams, just about destroyed everything he lays his hands on, unopposed PLUS he was unopposed in 2008 – hasn’t contested an election since 2004! David Pugh, two words: ‘Don Quixote’, unopposed.
Umelda Havard, beat a Labour candidate and another independent and Lyndon Frayling beat a Labour, a Tory and another independent candidate, neither of these have ever spoken in the council chamber. Huw George, the Newtonian physics pancake man, beat a Plaid Cymru candidate. Brian Hall, the tardis time traveller, beat a Labour candidate.
The problem is that many councillors elected as independents go on to join the IPG/IPPG usually straight away because of the coin and the promise of more for their ward. They hop on board the gravy train and leave their morals and the mandate from their electors on the platform.
No matter how loud the guard blows his whistle, there’s no stopping the locomotive – its pull is SO strong that even a large number of councillors elected under a party banner have crossed the floor and immediately risen the ranks to become the IPG/IPPG’s star players.
The trend for IPPG membership IS however on the downward path, but this isn’t because the voters are voting party candidates instead, Jon Boy. They are still electing independent or no-name ticket candidates but the reason the IPG/IPPG’s trend is going downward is because more independent councillors are refusing to buy into the IPPG pyramid scheme and instead they honour their mandates and stay unaligned.
Why do you think this is? Might I suggest it’s because there is more awareness than ever before (and the word is spreading by the day believe me) about the IPPG and that it is an evil political movement which is all about jobs for the boys and pats on the back, and more independent candidates are aware of how bad it is and oppose it, and they get elected, and they have no desire of joining or know it would be a bad move if they did?
So then, how are people being made more aware of the IPG and the IPPG’s true nature? Certainly not the Western Telegraph for years, it was Mike Stoddart ploughing a lonely furrow on his blog. Then Jacob with this web site. They create awareness. This awareness changes people’s opinions.
And guess what? They are both unaligned councillors.
But then, you said in your comment: “no place for independents” and as you rightly said, that statement MUST include Mike and Jacob, and other many good unaligned councillors with them.
If anybody is tarring IPPG and unaligneds with the same brush, it’s you and only you, Jon Boy.
Just think how must less you’d know about the bad stuff that goes on if it wasn’t for certain unaligned councillors.
Still think there is “no place for independents” on the council? Thought not.
Jon Boy, it may surprise you to learn that the Dyfed councils were mostly ‘independent’ controlled.
Keanjo and Quill, times have moved on. Change needs to happen. Independent/unaligned don’t work. Just what will happen in 2017 if we are still Pembrokeshire and have the same amount of independent councillors? Another IPPG just with a new name.
Mike Stoddart is astute on his replies. Yes there may not be a clear mandate from one party but there is every chance it will be. The electorate are now more aware than ever and can hold people to account. Scorpio can see beyond the mist to understand the need for clear and accountable politics.
Mistakes will occur and wrong decisions made, if not on the scale of the current debacle that is our Council. I’ve raised some stirrings in this debate. Maybe Jacob can organise an online poll: 1. Would you like to see an independent led council? 2. Would you vote for your current Counciilor to be returned? (With a supplementary question to ask which political party the councillor is with).
2015 is going to be a key general election in Pembrokeshire. Which ever party (Tory v Labour) loses out they are going to push hard to have more say locally.
Mike Stoddart has been a fine wine maturing in the cellar, always a bottle for others to relish. But what happens if the barman drops the bottle and it is no more? Who then will the other bottles look upto? Where do we go when Mike takes his Council pension and spends more time in his garden?
Independents have had their day. Quill points out the ones who got a pat on the back from their mates and a ticket for the train. Let’s just see the reaction when this round of budget cuts hits home. Independents. Lol.
Quill is on the mark when he characterises the IPPG as a “pyramid scheme”.
Up to a point, all political parties might be so described, but the difference with the IPPG is that voters don’t get to know who its members are until AFTER the election.
And in some cases they might even find themselves represented by an IPPG member even though they believed they were voting for a Labour candidate (e.g. Simon Hancock and Sue Perkins) or Plaid Cymru candidate in the case of Stephen Joseph.
So you have all the defects associated with the traditional political parties plus outright deception.
Perhaps we should get used to the idea that a return to the county of Dyfed is a very real possibility. However uncomfortable this may sit with some, Pembrokeshire County Council has failed. Ceredigion want nothing to do to with our broken administration, so where do we go from here?
The romanticism of Pembrokeshire as some quaint corner of Wales akin to a picturesque county of Cornwall is a floundered conservative idealism. (The Cornish are doing far better, just check their webcasts).
Unfortunately, in true Pembroke ‘shire’ style our council leader has done little work regarding the imminent amalgamation (with whoever will have us) despite the issue being quite relevant for some time.
Pembrokeshire County Council has proved to be a lukewarm local authority that has lacked the vision, integrity and commitment to the communities that was evident when I was growing up in the county of Dyfed.
I can only say that, throughout all this controversy over IPG overtures to P.A. members, in the end the will of the members and supporters has been acted upon. That must be quite revolutionary in Pembrokeshire of late, I have already commented I feel it would be wrong to lambast others for finding out the current depth to which certain IPG councillors will go to keep the wheels on the bus.
Trust me Jacob, as I have commented, I fully understand your concerns when we have all witnessed and suffered for the self interest of the IPG in Pembrokeshire. Nevertheless I would offer this tender thought to yourself, and others, who have at great pains tried to change the direction we all have been forced in. The possible IPG mark 2 gold rush may require others to band together to protect the people of this county.
Critique and banter aside, there will be sacrifices to be made to resolve the very deep financial and political wounds inflicted to the body of Pembrokeshire. I ask all those who wish to be part of the future of this truly wonderful county to consider their positions and review how far they really are from the others trying to save Pembrokeshire.
To the Welsh Assembly, allow us time to remove the hole in the wall and find a new sheriff.
Last night, Thursday 09/10/14 the Pembrokeshire Alliance Executive and members met to discuss the offer made by Council Leader Jamie Adams to Bob Kilmister on 30/09/14. They passed the following Notice of Motion unanimously:
The Pembrokeshire Alliance confirms its over-riding principle in that we put Pembrokeshire and its people first and want to see the County Council well run, scrutinised and accountable to its residents. We are united by a desire to see the best for Pembrokeshire.
The Pembrokeshire Alliance notes:-
1. Pembrokeshire County Council is in crisis.
2. The approach to consider the possibility of entering talks to create a formal coalition with the IPPG.
3. The speech on Monday 29th September by Pembrokeshire Alliance Leader, Cllr Bob Kilmister in which he said that he did not have any trust in Council Leader, Cllr Jamie Adams.
4. Unless proper leadership is established, the Pembrokeshire Alliance fears the Council could be put into special measures by the Welsh Labour Government at Cardiff Bay, as Anglesey was, in July 2009.
The Pembrokeshire Alliance resolves:-
1. That in desiring to see what is best for Pembrokeshire and the Council, we DECLINE any offer of coalition whilst Cllr Jamie Adams remains as Leader. The IPPG and Cllr Adams are largely seen as toxic, by many people in the County and change is urgently needed at the top.
2. In listening to the will of members of the Pembrokeshire Alliance and the people of the County, we call for a much needed change of leadership to restore the good name of the Council at a time of great uncertainty. Instead of trying to save the IPPG and his own position, we need a new Leader able to deal with the period of austerity that we have entered and the very real threat to the actual existence of this Council. Merger with Ceredigion (as proposed by Williams) or a Dyfed Mark II are both unacceptable.
3. Calls upon Cllr Jamie Adams to resign as Leader.
4. The Pembrokeshire Alliance calls upon Councillors to step up to the mark and to try and form a Grand Coalition from within all groups (including the Pembrokeshire Alliance) and individuals, for the good of the County, and to deal with those issues that really matter.
5. The Pembrokeshire Alliance Leader to communicate the decision of this meeting to the local media, within the next 24 hours of our decision to decline the offer.
6. Call upon Cllr Kilmister to advise Cllr Adams that the Pembrokeshire Alliance councillors are unable to enter into any coalition discussions with him and his group whilst he remains as Council Leader.
PROPOSER: Andrew Lye
Jacob ran his piece last Saturday and called it “The party’s over”. The facts are that so far we have lost a total of 2 members and gained one. Jacob would obviously like to see the end of the Pembrokeshire Alliance and along with many other politically committed people who posted. They have tried their very best to try and make that headline a reality but you have failed miserably.
The Pembrokeshire Alliance are determined to be a constructive group who put the interests of Pembrokeshire first rather than simply standing on the sidelines character assassinating anybody who dares to disagree with their view. This County is in crisis and we are prepared to explore all options. Jacob loves to criticise but when is he actually going to contribute in a positive manner? Being destructive is easy and makes you popular but actually trying to do something is why we have politicians. We are voted in to do a specific job but Jacob sees his role as more sensationalist journalist than constructive politician. I think it is time he decided what he wants to be when he grows up.
I was asked by Jacob last week what was inaccurate in his post. I promised to respond today and so here are my answers:
1). The actual offer. You have altered this twice in your blog I believe and it is still not correct. Would you like another go? I am sure you will get it right eventually.
2). I quote from your piece, “though it appears he did take the decision by himself to enter into negotiations with Cllr. Adams.” I did not, I was asked to see Jamie in his office and believed the meeting would be about what was said at Corporate Governance the day before. I have not had any formal negotiations with him and I will not be doing so.
3). I quote again, “We may never know the logic behind the coalition discussions, but you can guarantee that juicy wads of cash for high positions will play their part.” Why if that is the case did I not accept the offer immediately, as you are quite right I would have gained financially? A career in fiction beckons I fear. Old Grumpy would not make these errors he would check his facts first. Do you think this is the first offer I have ever had?
4). I quote again, “Whilst its supporters out on the streets of towns and villages across Pembrokeshire are no doubt well-meaning, well-intentioned and amenable to its talk of openness and democratic accountability which is in stark contrast to that of the IPPG, when it comes to County Hall there isn’t much that separates the Pembrokeshire Alliance from the shady ruling cabal, and there would be less still if the coalition goes through.”
Complete and utter tosh. We have a seven page statement outlining our policies and are committed to producing a clear manifesto before the next elections. Who else has that currently? What is your agenda Jacob, to be the Chief Prosecutor, Judge and Jury combined? Sorry, you already have that role. I admire your abilities, imagine what you could achieve if you attempted to be constructive?
5). I quote again, “The resignations I mentioned in my blogpost (and I’m aware of more since) had been tendered before I published. Similarly, the scores of online comments expressing outrage had been flooding in for over 24 hours before I posted.” Jacob the facts are that 2 members have resigned. One of which you have quoted in your piece. The other resigned via email. Hardly a flood. You have confused people who were NOT members with those that are.
I would also like to point out that several of the quotes you lifted from the Facebook page were made by people who are not members of the Pembrokeshire Alliance, Rob Summons, Viv Stoddart, Pearl Llewellyn and yourself are examples. I removed you from the site because you published people’s names. I hope you got their permission to do so but as administrator I was not prepared to see you act in that manner.
You should also be aware that Hayley Wood the former President of the PA who you quoted, wrote an email at 10.26 that day to me and the other members of the Executive. This email was very supportive but wished I had published the blog piece first. At 16.15 the same day she wrote the piece on Facebook. Hayley has NOT resigned from the Alliance and I am sure she will continue to contribute to our development. Not quite the same as you published is it Jacob?
I am sorry this response is so long but so was your rant. I am sure you and the many people who have posted will now attempt to take credit for the Alliance’s refusal to negotiate with Jamie Adams. The answer there is a very firm NO. My members took the decision and I am proud of them.
Methinks he dost protest too much.
Bob Kilmister, what utter tosh! This is all of your own doing. You hopelessly misread the mood of your members and now you try to hide behind a “poorly worded statement on Facebook”.
Let’s get straight to the root of it, you were offered a deal, you were ready to take the deal, you thought your members would jump at the chance to be in power. They weren’t, and the rest of the Pembrokeshire electorate thought it was shady as well.
Now you complain about the treatment you have received for entering into talks and the treatment Cllr Nutting has received for defending the indefensible. There has been no mistreatment, only your members and the people of Pembrokeshire telling you in a loud and clear voice that your deal was rotten. That, I’m afraid Bob, is democracy…
Correction required.
In my reply to Jacob I wrote: “I would also like to point out that several of the quotes you lifted from the Facebook page were made by people who are not members of the Pembrokeshire Alliance, Rob Summons, Viv Stoddart, Pearl Llewellyn and yourself are examples.”
It has been pointed out to me quite correctly that this is wrong. There should have been a full stop after Pembrokeshire Alliance not a comma. Rob Summons, Pearl Llewellyn and Viv Stoddart have never actually posted on the Alliance Facebook page. I apologise for the error.
Bob, what a bumbling incoherent load of rubbish that was. The Alliance’s deluded supporters were a laughing stock before all this happened and nothing has changed.
There’s not really any point in arguing the toss, your posts are totally out of touch with the Pembrokeshire people you claim to represent, you’re local councillors not great politicians, and as deluded as the IPPG!
Mr Kilmister is invited to a meeting with the leader who had previously been described by himself as being untrustworthy. Did he ask the leader what the meeting was about?
He attends the meeting. We are told that he cannot reveal what was said as he had agreed to treat the meeting as confidential.
As soon as Mr Kilmister agrees to abide by the terms requiring secrecy with a group known for its own agenda of self interest dependent on Chinese whispers, cunning, innuendo and secrecy, he has in my humble opinion lost credibility.
It is patently obvious that in order to lance the boil of the IPPG, a union between different factions needs to take place. This union seems as far away as ever.
I like the strong response from Mr Kilmister and his Pembrokeshire Alliance but would have preferred an apology for this error of judgement rather than a defence of his action. If you ask Huw George – he will tell you that God hasn’t invented the man yet who hasn’t cocked something up.
Keep digging Bob, with a bit of luck you’ll disappear into your own hole.
I am flattered by Cllr Kilmister’s acknowledgement that I try to stick to the facts.
As for facts, Bob posted on Facebook on 3 October that: “Bob Kilmister Leader of the Pembrokeshire Alliance has today entered into negotiations with Jamie Adams the Leader of Pembrokeshire County Council about a possible coalition agreement with the IPPG.”
The following day Bob posted: “Yesterday I made public that on Tuesday of this week [30 Sept] I had a discussion with Jamie Adams where he requested that I consider an offer to work as part of the Executive at Pembrokeshire County Council. I told him that this was not my decision to take.”
Alert readers will notice that there is no mention of Tuesday in the earlier post which refers only to “today” which was actually a Friday.
And these discussions were then spun as “talks about talks” when we also know that they got as far as considering which Cabinet post Bob would have if the coalition took place.
Kizzy J’s comment on the Pembrokeshire Herald website should prove once and for all what the Pembrokeshire Alliance are all about with their their lust for power. Out of the same mould as BPJ and his pet monkey Jamie.
Martin, come out from behind that computer screen and stop talking utter rubbish. Get a life and a touch of reality. You think you have your finger on the pulse but you sound as though you have crawled out from under a bridge. You and others are only prepared to rubbish those who attempt to make a difference.
Sneering all the time may make you feel good. To me you appear to be a wannabe councillor with not enough bottle to get out of your hole. The only people you impress are the other trolls who lurk ready to do anyone down trying to make Pembrokeshire a better place.
Talk sense and about how improvements can be made. If all you can come out with is personal drivel then shut up!
“I think it is time he decided what he wants to be when he grows up.”
My God, how childish is that comment. Jacob has achieved more in his short time as a councillor than most others, and I certainly include Bob Kilmister in that. I CERTAINLY regard Jacob’s revelations as achievements.
As for positive politics? What else can be done against a ruling party like the IPPG other than hold them to account? Unless you want to consider JOINING them? But who in their right minds would do that huh?
Oh that’s right, the Pembrokeshire Alliance! Whose openness and transparency doesn’t include allowing criticisms in their discussion forum. Talk about narrow minded. Shadows of the Nazi party if you ask me.
Oooh, Jonathan, your post to Martin was devoid of Christian charity. Martin don’t be too upset – by the way, in your post you mentioned laughing Stock. It’s nice to know that at least one member of the Alliance remains cheerful!
Flashbang, pathetic, get a life and stop being a troll. You have my email address, why not be an adult and utter your rubbish without hiding. Actually you are more Pembrokeshire’s problem than those you denigrate. You think you know better, but all you do is sit and pontificate. Luckily I have time to relax for a couple of hours so have the time to play your silly little games 🙂
Keanjo, I actually have quite a good sense of humour. I am just getting irritated by the lack of common decency. The rubbish being spouted here by certain contributors is beyond the pale. They think that hiding behind silly made up names gives them the right to write whatever rubbish they think might cause the most offence. As I say, pathetic!
Martin, I question totally your motives. Come clean now, are you working for other political forces within the county? At least I am up front and will happily take you on toe to toe. You must have other reasons to spit at the Alliance, are you rally ‘a caring citizen’ 🙂 or are you motivated by other things?
Jonathan, I’m not hiding behind anything. I use my real name and use freedom of speech as I wish, not as you wish to dictate.
I’m not “trolling”, I’m giving a perfectly legitimate opinion to specific actions and opinions of yourself, Bob Kilmister and others. Even NOW you still don’t get it do you? The reason for the very legitimate backlash to Bob’s fumbled announcement and what the announcement pertained to was driven by good people’s loathing of the IPPG, Bryn Parry-Jones and all they’ve stood for and been responsible for, for so many years.
I’m no wannabe councillor. That doesn’t bar me from voicing my opinion when those that are elected behave abominably. I mean come on let’s face it, Bob couldn’t even handle a simple situation and resultant public denouncement competently, we really wouldn’t want any more people like that in the cabinet would we?
And no, I’m not working for any political force either. I really am just an individual who cares about being screwed over by certain greedy individuals in County Hall.
The craziest thing about this current situation is that until Bob was invited to Jamie’s office for a brandy and a chat, you and the rest of the PA were of exactly the same sentiment as the rest of us. Jacob has picked huge holes in your credibility and integrity and no matter how much Bob calls for you and the troops to get out there and fight the PA’s corner you are wasting your time. You’ve been caught bang to rights, simple.
What most people are saying about the PA isn’t being nasty, it’s just stating facts and/or opinion.
You and Bob could learn a thing or two from Peter Stock right now and just keep your heads down for a while. The PA was cautiously welcomed by some because it seemed to have good intentions even if nothing else of substance. Now you don’t even have that! It’s more akin to the People’s Front of Judea!!
I certainly don’t have all the answers but start with the obvious like remuneration packages for officers and cabinet leaders, severance packages for outgoing CEOs who have done so much wrong, unnecessary travelling expenses for cabinet members and other councillors, SRAs, unnecessary legal advice charges, unnecessary cabinet posts like TWO Deputy Leaders. Just appoint one and IF he/she ever needs to carry out the role, stop the off duty Leader’s salary because he/she obviously won’t be carrying out the role.
Sure, that will only scratch the surface.
Do away with final salary pension schemes, let council employees like teachers fund their own pensions just like the rest of us have to do.
Let’s look at the emergency contingency fund that wasn’t even used in the 2008/2009 financial crisis. How much is in that? How bad do things have to get before we can use it? After all, it’s OUR money.
You are so out of touch with the people you represent, no matter how much you pontificate to the contrary. There are very real reasons that Jacob and Mike Stoddart’s columns are so popular. Positive politics would be oh so much easier if there wasn’t so much bloody wrongdoing and unnecessary payments going to people who absolutely don’t deserve it!
As my local councillor, JN really isn’t endearing himself to me at the moment, with his rudeness and defensive claptrap. Bring on 2017.
Martin that’s a lot better.
I am not out of touch with the people I represent. I run the Oak in Pembroke. I am a member of the town council. I actually listen and I have not got any blinkers on. I know people make mistakes but do not rant on about it. I allow them to move on and learn from them. It is only those who do not want to listen and take a proper part that irritates me. I am happy to discuss any matter as long as we can agree to disagree or come to a consensus.
I love idealism and unfortunately that is a failing I have. Unfortunately we have to live in a real world that does not fit the model we would like to impose on it.
Indepedant, excellent, someone in my area prepared to put their head above the parapet. As you will know Pembroke needs a lot of input to help it move on. I have been working hard with others within the town to make a difference. Maybe you would like to help? I need as many active people as possible. I will listen to all the advice you may wish to give me. You know where I am. Come down and make yourself known.
Thanks for the patronising reply. I’ve posted such suggestions many times over the years I’ve been watching and commenting. I know who you are Jon, I’m Pembroke born and bred, I spent some of my misspent youth in The Oak amongst other pubs.
Being an idealist won’t get you anywhere with the hard headed b******s in charge of our council.
Jonathan Nutting, I know an opportunist chancer when I see one. You do the real Christians a disservice by claiming to be one because your actions and hypocrisy are the total opposite of their tenet. Martin Lewis, Jacob Williams, Kizzy J have all provided you with plenty of evidence of the PA’s twisting of the facts and your delusional rantings just show that you have totally lost the plot.
If you had any integrity you’d resign from the PCC as you have been caught out. Are you going to deny Kizzy J’s reporting of your meeting where her and others were conned into signing up for the PA under false pretenses? (Click link to read her comment on the article here.)
She claims some very interesting tactics were used there which could be forwarded to the Ombudsman for scrutiny.
I’m not a troll, I’m a Pembrokeshire boy trying to get the best for the county by exposing the liars, cheats and hypocrites up at County Hall for what they are.
Here’s a quite amusing link for the amusement of your readers Jacob, I think it’s self explanatory and tells you everything you need to know about the people behind the Pembrokeshire Alliance, including Bob Kilmister, Jonathan Nutting and Andrew Lye.
Click here to read the article.
It seems that there is history about confusing announcements/notices of motion not being understood or clearly delivered within the group. Read Andrew Lye’s comment, made in response to the first comment made by ‘North of the Landsker’, it is the fourth comment down, or you can read it on its own at this link.
Andrew Lye says: “I know Bob Kilmister quite well and know he is a councillor of substance and with principles and the likelyhood [sic.] of him joining the IPPG is as likely as the Titanic being refloated.”
Technically Bob Kilmister nearly DID join the IPPG in effect.
Also, I’m really not sure that Jon’s wish to increase the tolls to £1 would be particularly popular although I’m sure he has some intelligent reason for it that us mere mortal chattering classes aren’t able to comprehend.
Yet in this article Jon Nutting wants to abolish the tolls altogether. Bit of a ditherer Jon? Join the PA!
I’ve worked in the community for 10 years Jonathan and don’t feel the need to keep shouting about it. I also am very choosy who I work with. Still, each to their own. And yes, I know the Oak, but being over the age of 18, I’ve never had the urge to go inside.
Martin, I suggested raising the toll so that the book of tickets (that most local people buy) could be halved. I have been extremely keen to have the A477 trunked so that the tolls are removed altogether. I am now concerned that the IPPG are looking to put the tolls up anyway! So increasing the stealth tax on the south of the county.
The confusion was within the IPPG ranks. I got the motion looked at by a the economy committee (against the odds) unfortunately it was kicked into the long grass again by the IPPG majority on this committee.
As the saying goes, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. Hence Flashbang and Kizzy J have decided to expound their amazing breadth of knowledge. I have to say you know more about what is happening than I do. 🙂
I will hand back personally any money to any disillusioned member/supporter of the Alliance. Please give me a time and date.
Indepedant, I can understand you have high standards and need to be careful not to damage them. With your knowledge of Pembroke can you tell me how you think we can help in its regeneration? I would love to hear what I am sure would be positive and meaningful advice. As I have said, you can email me if you feel that it might be a bit long to publish here.
Can I suggest we four meet. I am sure we could have a lively discussion about the merits of your articles. I feel that you might be able to show me clearly the errors of my ways. I am always keen to listen to sound, positive advice 🙂 keep up the good work guys.
Martin Lewis, You said “Do away with final salary pension schemes, let council employees like teachers fund their own pensions just like the rest of us have to do.” I think you’ll find that Council employees do contribute to their own scheme!
Now, whether it’s fair that the CEO of PCC or Leader Adams only pay 8% from their highly inflated pay packages, is another thing! Other professions, such as teachers, pay more and more towards their pension the higher up the scale they go.
Case closed.
Cllr Nutting, this is getting beyond the pale. You and your pal Bob have been caught with your hands in Jamie’s cookie jar, and now that you see just how badly the people of Pembrokeshire view you, you’re both acting like petulant children pouting at being told off!
Might I suggest that instead of posting your declarations of innocence and injustice, whilst trying to get a rise out everyone who has had the audacity to tackle you and PA on your grubby back room deal with the IPPG, you all go away and see if there’s any way of salvaging what’s left of your integrity.
Jonathan Nutting,
As a Pembroke person born and bred, I have a suggestion! Do away with Pembroke and Pembroke Dock Town Councils, there only needs to be one representing both towns, especially with the new developments on Bush Hill and planning being sought for the fields along the top road cycle path!!
Stop wasting money and agreeing on daft road layouts, such as that pavement along the garden wall at Hamilton House Main Street, the totally wrong positioning of the Tudor Rose outside the Chain back, which has only served to provide a level standing for the waltzers!
Stop any more building on or near the Castle Pond, it’s bad enough that the dam couldn’t be repaired earlier due to the area being over developed (despite warnings) and then thousands spent on reinforcing.
And one final suggestion, Get PCC to install some kind of common sense system for flooding? When severe storms are forecast, open the dam to empty the ponds, then close it, not leave it brimming and no place for the water to go?
EVERYBODY should fund their own pensions. The tax-payer is subsidising these pensions and it’s wrong.
Simply Stunned, thank you for that. I agree fully with every point you have made, especially the first one.
Martin Lewis, obviously you’re a Daily Mail reader! Or perhaps, you were turned down a low paid job within the public sector, such as school crossing person, toilet cleaner, street cleaner, all of whom can’t write anything off against tax!
Jonathan Nutting, what I wanted to point out is that Kizzy J in her comment on the Herald website claims that she was signed up to the Pembrokeshire Alliance (and presumably others) without consent or knowledge.
That hardly wins the argument against people funding their own pensions. The public sector workers have a massive black hole in their pension funds yet heads are buried in the sand. I don’t read the Daily Mail and I’ve never been turned down for any of the jobs you mention.
Martin, your comment is my website’s 3,000th!
PA and IPPG and their members, the gift that keeps on giving. Congratulations on hitting the mother lode!
I talked to ‘Kizzy J’ at length at the meeting she mentions. She was in no doubt about what we were doing or what she was signing up to. I have asked a friend of hers to give back the £1 and her registration form.
Great stuff Jacob, do I win a prize?
Unfortunately I’m unable to offer you a cabinet post at this moment in time.
I’ll settle for Committee Chairman and raise my hand whenever you tell me.