Clearly the most important matter that came before today’s county council meeting was the unanimously supported adoption of the Pembrokeshire flag. The recommendation from officers on my proposal to council was that it should be flown on “appropriate occasions” such as the Queen’s Birthday, St. David’s Day, etc. This seemed a rather pointless exercise, so to make it clear and avoid wearing out the rope and pulley, I submitted a re-worded amendment that the flag be flown ‘at all times’ alongside the council’s crest, outside County Hall.
There were, however, also two other big votes on the agenda. Firstly was the motion of no confidence in cabinet member with responsibility for education, Cllr. Huw George, which failed miserably 15-33, with nine abstentions.
Plaid Cymru has caused a bit of confusion over this one. I bet their supporters are wondering, just like I am, what lies behind the lack of harmony between the noises they were making outside of the council chamber, and the actions they took inside it. In this week’s Western Telegraph letters page, Cllr. Michael Williams, the leader of Plaid Cymru on the council, sent in a letter setting out the reasons why Cllr. Huw George should accept responsibility and be gone. It’s also been published online. Anybody reading it would have been forgiven for thinking Plaid Cymru would be supporting the motion of no confidence. In the event, all of them abstained from voting, even including Cllr. Williams.
The latest Estyn report is due on Monday, and we’re told by Cllr. George that progress is being made in his department. If, as is widely expected, the report is an adverse one, those who have now put their support for Cllr. George on record, might have good reason to feel aggrieved, and so will their voters.
Cllr. Mike Stoddart’s motion was worded:
“This Council has no confidence in the Deputy Leader and Cabinet Member for Education and the Welsh Language, Councillor Huw George.”
A recorded vote was conducted, and went as follows:
Unaffiliated
Phil Baker
Tony Brinsden
David Bryan
Tessa Hodgson
Owen James
David Lloyd
Jonathan Nutting
Mike Stoddart
Vivien Stoddart
Jacob Williams
Labour
Pat Davies
Paul Miller
Gwilym Price
Tony Wilcox
Guy Woodham
15
Jamie Adams
John Allen-Mirehouse
Daphne Bush
John Davies
Mark Edwards
Wynne Evans
Lyndon Frayling
Brian Hall
Simon Hancock
Paul Harries
Umelda Havard
Mike James
Lyn Jenkins
Michael John
Keith Lewis
Rob Lewis
Pearl Llewellyn
Peter Morgan
Elwyn Morse
David Neale
David Pugh
David Rees
Tom Richards
Ken Rowlands
David Simpson
Peter Stock
David Wildman
Arwyn Williams
Steve Yelland
Unaffiliated
Mike Evans
Phil Kidney
Conservative
David Howlett
Stan Hudson
33
Rod Bowen
Stephen Joseph
Jonathan Preston
Rhys Sinnett
Michael Williams
Unaffiliated
Bob Kilmister
IPG
Reg Owens
Myles Pepper
Labour
Sue Perkins
9
The second big vote was also brought to the council by Cllr. Mike Stoddart which, now passed, will redress the stranglehold the controlling group of the council currently has on certain committees. It’s the biggest upset in the council chamber since PG followed I. Council leader Cllr. Adams vehemently opposed it, yet seven of his group members rebelled understand the principle of fairness, and voted in favour.
It’s encouraging that they saw the debate for what it was, and not what their leader dressed it up as. Cllr. Adams tried to put forward the view that it would be wrong to fiddle with the mechanics of the council system as and when it suits, for political advantage. I’d be the first to agree, and this is by no means an example of this in action. However, I haven’t forgotten that back in May, Cllr. Adams resurrected a cabinet post that his predecessor had previously scrapped in the name of saving money. That decision rather handily increased his gravy-train payroll, and will cost taxpayers around £90,000 this council term. This democratic decision to create a handful of unpaid additional committee positions was made by the whole council, and will cost little more than the paper and ink for a few new agendas.
It was clearly not a move designed to gain unfair political advantage, it was designed to do the exact opposite – to allow committees to reflect the Pembrokeshire electoral map, and along with the seven IPG councillors, almost all of the opposition saw the sense of justice behind it. Only one non-IPG member voted against – Cllr. Sue Perkins. During the debate, Cllr. Adams said it was “unfortunate” that there were so many unaligned councillors in Pembrokeshire. He suggested that if they were so keen to sit on extra committees, they should think about joining the IPG. If the bruising he received in the subsequent vote is any indicator of the likely realignment of councillors, I think Cllr. Adams is highly unlikely to see his IPG numbers increase. However, as he didn’t specify whether this invitation extends to Cllr. Perkins as well, I might be proven wrong. One councillor afterwards said to me “you won’t be able to claim the IPG votes en bloc after this one!” One swallow doesn’t make a summer.
Notice of motion relating to committee placements:
“That, in order to better reflect the political balance of the authority, the number of members on each of the Democratic Services, Urgency, Senior Staff, Licensing and Corporate Governance Committees be increased by one.”
Another recorded vote was conducted, which went as follows:
Unaffiliated
Phil Baker
Tony Brinsden
David Bryan
Mike Evans
Tessa Hodgson
Owen James
Phil Kidney
Bob Kilmister
David Lloyd
Jonathan Nutting
Mike Stoddart
Vivien Stoddart
Jacob Williams
Plaid Cymru
Rod Bowen
Stephen Joseph
Jonathan Preston
Rhys Sinnett
Michael Williams
Labour
Pat Davies
Paul Miller
Gwilym Price
Tony Wilcox
Guy Woodham
IPG
Simon Hancock
Paul Harries
Lyn Jenkins
Michael John
Reg Owens
Myles Pepper
Peter Stock
Conservative
David Howlett
Stan Hudson
32
Jamie Adams
John Allen-Mirehouse
Daphne Bush
John Davies
Mark Edwards
Wynne Evans
Lyndon Frayling
Huw George
Brian Hall
Umelda Havard
Mike James
Keith Lewis
Rob Lewis
Pearl Llewellyn
Peter Morgan
Elwyn Morse
David Neale
David Pugh
David Rees
Tom Richards
Ken Rowlands
David Simpson
David Wildman
Arwyn Williams
Steve Yelland
Labour
Sue Perkins
26
0
The bum steer
I asked the Cllr. Adams to explain how he thought I “may have broken the Data Protection Act,” which is what he told the Western Mail when it ran a story on the Partygate scandal in October. It was a rather simple question, though it came as no surprise that he didn’t even attempt to provide an answer. The chairman didn’t allow me to press the leader for an answer, however, the handling of an earlier question on the agenda gave a hint of what I could have expected.
Cllr. Tessa Hodgson asked if and how the leader could demonstrate that he had made his recent appointments to the new Dyfed-Powys Police and Crime Panel with objectivity, in-line with the Nolan principles of standards in public life. In his response, the leader failed to demonstrate not only how, but even if he had done so. For some reason, the chair gifted Cllr. Hodgson a rare second follow-up, which she used to push the leader to answer the question; at which point he gave up. “We have different views on this matter,” he told her, “and at times you have to accept that.”




Fascinating to see that we may just be witnessing the stranglehold that the IPG have had over PCC for many years, breaking up, and not before time.
Also interesting to note the actions of the two ‘Labour’ cabinet members who are not generally voting the same way as the Labour group. Cannot exactly be a cause for rejoicing in Labour circles and in many ways undermines the current Labour leadership.
Well done Old Grumpy!
Well done with the flag, Jacob. It will be great for tourists to see it flying over County Hall when they drive in to Haverfordwest. And we shouldn’t forget Peter Stock’s contribution to all this.
So you have succeeded with the flag. Congratulations.
I understand it is to fly at the same time as the County crest, so will we see that flag come down, so they don’t have to fly the Pembrokeshire flag at the same time? Or am I just being suspicious…
I think Councillor Williams is trying to steal Peter Stock’s thunder. Peter was promoting the Pembrokeshire flag when young Williams was still in short trousers.
Please show a bit of respect for your elders. At the end of the day, respect is what good manners is all about.
But it was Councillor Williams who put the request to Council not Councillor Stock!
Old Blue suggests Jacob is stealing Peter (laughing) Stock’s thunder! Who writes your comments Old (confused) Blue lol – also remember there were other committee members of the Pembrokeshire Flag campaign with quieter mouths than Stock who did as much work, some even more!!!
Correct observation ‘Lean’ in that you recognised Jacob Williams tabled the Flag motion and not Cllr Stock – well done.
Perhaps now others will understand that this could well have been done when Jacob was still in school – so why did it take such a young ‘un’ to bring it about is what I ask?
Delete ‘steal thunder’ and insert ‘from the heart’ – go go Jacob!
Just wondering if there’s room for the white flag…
…when the IPG+ collapses…
I didn’t mean to downplay Councillor Williams’ contribution to having the Pembrokeshire standard fluttering proudly over County Hall.
I was merely trying to flag up the efforts of Councillor Peter Stock in hoisting the banner of Pembrokeshire as Wales’s premier county. I understand Councillor Stock actually designed the flag and if there are others who played a part their efforts should be recognised too.
What should be a matter of communal pride must not be allowed to degenerate into political point-scoring!
Such an almighty fuss over flag with even a suggestion that “it will be great for tourists to see it when driving into Haverfordwest”.
With the economy going downhill, the education of our children in Pembrokeshire not being up to standard or failing, primary education passing their failures on to secondary education and then many of these pupils going on to a Mickey Mouse university studying a Mickey Mouse degree, all Pembrokeshire councillors can worry about is a flag?
After reading the letter in the local paper from Cllr Michael Williams I would suggest he clarifies his position on the motion regarding Cllr George.
Well said Mr Calver. Far too much “look at me mum” going on.
I’ve just heard that the flag will only fly when the Chief Executive is in the building. Is that true?
For those of us that are less well versed in Council operations than a number of the contributors on here, could a couple of questions be answered to put this into context? What exactly do the Committees referred to do? (Services provided etc) and how much of the Council’s expenditure do they oversee?
Re post by Lean. Who does the CEO think he is? The Queen?! Lol.
Also have to agree with Mr Calver’s comment regarding Plaid Cymru’s decision. It surprised me that they all abstained especially after the letter from their leader in the Western Telegraph. It made no sense to me at all. Maybe my comment should be made under the subject ‘toothless tiger’!!
Hi Wally,
The senior staff committee acts as the interview panel for posts of head of service and above. It also deals with changes to terms and conditions of senior staff i.e. pay rises etc.
Corporate governance monitors and oversees changes to the council’s constitution and also has an audit function.
Democratic services is a new committee and without looking it up I’m not entirely sure what it does though it is something to do with making sure there are sufficient resources available for the democratic system to work properly.
Licensing is self-explanatory, and urgency is a committee that meets when there is an emergency and there is insufficient time for a regular committee or full council meeting to be called to deal with the situation. I believe it last met in Sept 2002, when, as I recall, the matter under consideration was the collapse of the cliff at Saundersfoot.
Formerly these committees had either six (urgency, democratic and senior staff) or 12 members (licensing and corporate governance) which meant that the rule requiring the majority group to have a majority on all committees gave the IPPG a 4-2 or 7-5 advantage.
The change agreed last Thursday: to increase the number by one, reduces this majority to 4-3 and 7-6 respectively, which better reflects the overall political balance of the authority (32-28).
I hope this helps.
For those interested, the rules and roles of the Council, its committees, members and officers are set out in the Council’s Constitution, available to view in full on the Council’s web site – see ‘Your Council’ section. This may not be the most up-to date version as I understand it is not a statutory requirement that this version is kept up to date.
This is the only protection we have against abuses of power, and is draughted by officers and approved by full council. Amendments may be made either as a result of legislation or Councillors’ own Notices of Motion via the Corporate Governance Committee. Most NoMs fail this hurdle on a majority vote. Thus the status quo can be maintained.
Following the Special Audit Investigation, a shorthand version of extracts was introduced and these are available on the website under the Terms Of Reference tag.
Also available is the register of councillors’ declared interests – under ‘Your Councillor’ section.
Thank you Cllr Stoddart. That does indeed help. Although, unless I misunderstand what has been previously posted then, the IPG continues to have a majority on these committees which frankly serves no great purpose in any event (at least in the context of public service provision). It could actually be argued that the corporate governance arrangements have failed spectacularly given recent events which undoubtedly you would agree with.
I’m not sure I can relate your kind explanation to Cllr Williams’ rhetoric about this being the “greatest upset in the Council Chamber since I followed PG” and the current Leader receiving a “bruising” in the vote, therefore.
Is it not also true to say that none of these Committees have oversight of any significant expenditure of the Council either? As a final question, how will the Chairs of these Committees be established/elected/appointed?
I await the ‘oh dear wally, I shall deal with these quickly’ response with a heavy heart…
I had hoped that we would have received some sort of explanation from Cllr Michael Williams from Tenby regarding his stance on the motion of Cllr Stoddart regarding Cllr George. A bit like the “Celtic Tiger” it seems the Plaid Cymru “Toothless Tiger” as noted by PD in an earlier comment, must have disappeared.
For a leader of a party at County Hall to produce such a letter to the Western Telegraph, which clearly indicated his position and intention then fail to lead his troops into the battle, does not give you much confidence in the Party of Wales.
I also note that Cllr Mike Evans from Tenby and Cllr Phil Kidney, my successor as county councillor for Manorbier, voted against the motion. I therefore presume that if they have children of school age or if they are governors of a school in Pembrokeshire they are quite happy with the status quo.
Cllr Sue Perkins I also note abstained rather than following the party line, perhaps she had consulted her ex Labour cabinet colleague who was I believe a deputy headteacher.
County councillors who failed to support the motion of no confidence in Cllr Huw George by Cllr Stoddart, should seriously consider their role in being school governors, if the Estyn report criticises Pembrokeshire County Council’s education department. School governors must also consider their positions.
“In the absence of clear and robust information, members require a high degree of motivation to challenge reports and require officers to provide them with sufficient and reliable information that allows them to evaluate service provision and challenge ways of working. In our view, few members demonstrate the motivation and capacity to do so.”
This is an extract from paragraph 81 of the Wales Audit Office’s Special Inspection- Implementation of Safeguarding arrangements – at Pembrokeshire County Council.
How likely is it that this circumstance only applies to the safeguarding issue?
The comments are a damning indictment on either the membership as individuals or their collective exercising of their democratic roles (and probably both) and it is inconceivable that the problems are constrained within one area of the Council’s operations.
The IPPG members who voted for the logic of the argument concerning the membership number of Council committees should be congratulated, and those who did not should be asked to reflect upon why they are in awe of the “party” machinery.
Would a flag showing two fingers rampant, be a more suitable image to display to all who pass by the decision making centre of the county, as a gesture to the common rate payer?