Thursday, 6th March, 2014
Confidence boost
The voting record for the motion of no confidence in PCC’s chief executive, Bryn Parry-Jones, at today’s council meeting is published below.
It was lost with 23 votes in favour of no confidence, 30 votes against, 5 abstentions and two absentees.
FOR:
Phil Baker, Rod Bowen, Tony Brinsden, David Bryan, Pat Davies, Tessa Hodgson, Steve Joseph, Bob Kilmister, Alison Lee, David Lloyd, Paul Miller, Jonathan Nutting, Reg Owens, Jonathan Preston, Gwilym Price, Rhys Sinnett, Mike Stoddart, Viv Stoddart, Tom Tudor, Tony Wilcox, Jacob Williams, Michael Williams and Guy Woodham.
AGAINST:
Jamie Adams, John Allen-Mirehouse, Daphne Bush, Mark Edwards, Wynne Evans, Lyndon Frayling, Huw George, Brian Hall, Paul Harries, Umelda Havard, Stan Hudson, Mike James, Owen James, Michael John, Phil Kidney, Keith Lewis, Rob Lewis, Pearl Llewellyn, Peter Morgan, Elwyn Morse, David Neale, Susan Perkins, David Pugh, David Rees, Tom Richards, Ken Rowlands, David Simpson, Rob Summons, Arwyn Williams and Steve Yelland.
ABSTAIN:
John Davies, Mike Evans, David Howlett, Lyn Jenkins and Peter Stock.
ABSENT:
Simon Hancock and Myles Pepper.
Within his contribution on this debate, Cllr. Huw George, who was very keen to stress he was dealing in ‘facts and evidence’ and not ‘the headlines,’ told the chamber: “I think it was Newton’s third law of physics…that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction,” before noting that members would be taking an action by casting their votes.
When his name was called out on the recorded vote, Cllr. George along with twenty-nine others said “against.”
Saying the word “against” is quite a simple action.
Cllr. George may find his Newtonian reference applies only in part as far as the Pembrokeshire public is concerned.
Yes, the twenty-nine votes ‘against’ are likely to create an ‘opposite’ reaction, but to think this reaction is going to be ‘equal’ is surely wild optimism.
As well as the vote of no confidence in the chief executive, there was also a vote of no confidence tabled over the monitoring officer, Laurence Harding, following his involvement in the Valentine’s Day ambush and his prior actions which trampled all over councillors legal rights including refusal of access to information.
It failed with 20 votes for, 34 against, one abstention and five absentees, the recorded vote for which appears below.
FOR:
Phil Baker, Rod Bowen, Tony Brinsden, David Bryan, Pat Davies, Mike Evans, Tessa Hodgson, Bob Kilmister, Alison Lee, David Lloyd, Paul Miller, Gwilym Price, Rhys Sinnett, Peter Stock, Mike Stoddart, Viv Stoddart, Tony Wilcox, Jacob Williams, Michael Williams and Guy Woodham.
AGAINST:
Jamie Adams, John Allen-Mirehouse, Daphne Bush, John Davies, Mark Edwards, Wynne Evans, Lyndon Frayling, Huw George, Brian Hall, Paul Harries, Umelda Havard, David Howlett, Stan Hudson, Mike James, Owen James, Lyn Jenkins, Michael John, Steve Joseph, Phil Kidney, Keith Lewis, Rob Lewis, Pearl Llewellyn, Peter Morgan, Elwyn Morse, David Neale, Reg Owens, Susan Perkins, David Pugh, David Rees, Tom Richards, Ken Rowlands, David Simpson, Rob Summons and Arwyn Williams.
ABSTAIN:
Jonathan Preston.
ABSENT:
Simon Hancock, Jonathan Nutting, Myles Pepper, Tom Tudor and Steve Yelland.
The third and final no confidence vote was over Cllr. David Pugh, the cabinet member for economy, tourism and communities, for his poisonous and entirely untruthful tirade at the December full council meeting.
Like Mr. Parry-Jones and Mr. Harding before him, Cllr. Pugh left the chamber during the debate and vote.
It failed with 22 votes in favour and 24 against, and a lengthy abstention list of eight councillors.
FOR:
Rod Bowen, Tony Brinsden, David Bryan, Pat Davies, Tessa Hodgson, Owen James, Steve Joseph, Bob Kilmister, Alison Lee, David Lloyd, Paul Miller, Peter Morgan, Jonathan Preston, Gwilym Price, Rhys Sinnett, Peter Stock, Mike Stoddart, Viv Stoddart, Tony Wilcox, Jacob Williams, Michael Williams and Guy Woodham.
AGAINST:
Jamie Adams, John Allen-Mirehouse, Daphne Bush, John Davies, Mark Edwards, Mike Evans, Wynne Evans, Lyndon Frayling, Huw George, Brian Hall, Paul Harries, Umelda Havard, Mike James, Lyn Jenkins, Phil Kidney, Keith Lewis, Rob Lewis, Elwyn Morse, David Neale, Susan Perkins, Tom Richards, Ken Rowlands, Rob Summons and Arwyn Williams.
ABSTAIN:
Phil Baker, David Howlett, Stan Hudson, Michael John, Pearl Llewellyn, Reg Owens, David Rees and David Simpson.
ABSENT:
Simon Hancock, Jonathan Nutting, Myles Pepper, David Pugh, Tom Tudor and Steve Yelland.
❏I have also uploaded a further post on this meeting, meanwhile, you can also read other takes on the meeting by Old Grumpy here and here, and Carmarthenshire-based blogger Cneifiwr.
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How many IPG members voted for the motion?
Very surprised to see Evans and Stock on the abstentions list.
What can be done now, is this the end of the saga? How many unaffiliated councillors voted against the motion? This info would be useful so when you see these people you can ask why did they vote against the motion.
Thank you to the ones who voted for the motion, you have done a fantastic job. I will be standing in the next election as a new candidate.
The disgraceful situation continues, they have no shame.
As things are panning out it is likely that our real chance to change our county will not come until the next election. As a member of the new Pembrokeshire Alliance I personally guarantee the end of patronage and the birth of proper democracy within our county.
Our website will be out next week. We will be looking for like minded people to join us. Our intention is to field candidates in every IPPG seat. Welshman, I hope you will read our policies etc. We are looking for people like you to stand with us. My friends in Simpsons Cross and Keeston are looking for someone to represent them. What do you think? 🙂
There are at least 23 people of principle on our council. I respect one or two who voted against. They did it for what they thought were the right reasons. A cornered CEO is a very dangerous beast. I know some thought grin and bare it. Personally I thought Pembrokeshire desperately needed to lurch into a new brighter era, where all the dross sinks back into the murk where it belongs.
Three years will give the Alliance a chance to get its act together and sell its message. I can assure you better times are ahead. We care!
Confidence boost my backside.
This just goes to show what goes on in our local council. I notice that my local councillor Rob Summons is on the against list. So that’s him losing my vote at the next local election.
I personally think that the outcome of this vote does not reflect the opinions of the people who pay the wages. Us. The taxpaying public of Pembrokeshire. We need to make our voices heard.
Maybe Cllr Nutting can offer some reasoning as to why Peter Stock’s vote didn’t represent the feeling of people in his ward?
Jonathan Nutting: I’m not sure how everyone else might feel but personally I feel that Peter Stock’s abstention yesterday indicates a lack of backbone. How can we put faith in a party where probably the most prominent member can’t even make a decisive vote on the most important vote to come before council in many years?
Isn’t he supposed to be representing the thoughts of his constituents? Did they all want him to abstain?
The Pembrokeshire Alliance are already a joke in my eyes just because of yesterday’s actions by Peter Stock.
A golden opportunity lost?
Thank you for posting the breakdown of voting Jacob. As they say, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but a quick look at the voting reveals the IPPG block vote may not be as solid as once thought.
With two (Cllrs Joseph and Owens) voting for the motion of no confidence in Bryn Parry-Jones, two abstaining (Cllrs Davies and Jenkins), and two not present, that left the opposition in a potentially winning position.
Could the opposition members who voted against (Cllrs Hudson, James and Kidney) and those that abstained (Cllrs Howlett, Evans and Stock) have been persuaded to support the motion? If so the motion would have been carried by 29 for to 27 against.
I am sure however Farmer Adams knew the numbers before the vote was allowed to proceed.
After watching the fine example of Pembrokeshire’s finest performing for the cameras yesterday, I was disappointed by the outcome, although not entirely surprised by the usual block voting tactics by those too afraid to stand up to one man. And as for former leader farmer John’s abstention…!?
Are they, our councillors not, by proxy, representing their constituents during these votes? If the members who voted against the motion of no confidence asked those who they represent if they, the people of Pembrokeshire, had confidence in the chief executive, I think the result would have been different.
The most significant abstention was that of former leader John Davies. What sort of message does that send out?!
I think Peter will explain for himself.
My feeling is that he is worried about Pembrokeshire’s future. That major changes and uncertainties at this time will be detrimental. If he was not for fundamental change he would not have left the IPPG and joined the Alliance. I think it is time scale. The adage act in haste repent at leisure. We shall see.
The question is, had the vote of no confidence won – and I’m no fan of the CEO either given all the rumours about his aloofness and arrogance stemming right back to when PCC was set up (and that he behaved in a similar manner as CEO of Llanelli Borough Council) – what would the next step have been?
Yes it’s a shot across his bows that he’s not popular and people consider that the buck should have stopped with him with all the failings that have been identified in recent years, but dismissing him may have been contractually difficult and if he chose to resign could he have brought a constructive dismissal claim?
I congratulate those who had the courage of their convictions to table the notices of motion and those who voted in favour, but if the end goal was to remove Mr. Parry-Jones from post, how was it to be achieved at no cost to us?
I rather hope that Pembrokeshire councillors don’t take literally Jonathan Nutting’s advice to “grin and bare it”. The ruling group has already exposed itself enough for my liking.
The only IPPG member to impress me at yesterday’s meeting was Cllr Reg Owens when – with mounting anger – he told the leader “Jamie, if you’ve anything to say, say it to my face”. He really is ‘independent’ spirited and should leave the IPPG.
It seems to me that this is a very difficult situation; one cannot trumpet democracy and then say that one does not accept the vote.
The difficulty is that by the time of the next election the political scene will be significantly different – there is no way that Pembrokeshire will survive in its present form.
There will be a lot of jostling for position – in the meantime I am sure that the present Councillors will be concentrating on matters that really have an effect on the people of Pembrokeshire, in particular Social Care and Education.
Interested that I am in political gossip, I am also very concerned that vulnerable people in Pembrokeshire and their carers get the service they deserve.
Cllr Nutting: So you obviously think differently to Peter Stock and want the same as the rest of us, immediate action. Act in haste? We’ve been trying to get rid of him for years. I don’t see the logic.
Cannon123: I’ve been wondering the same thing. I think a lot of us just want recognition that EVERYONE feels that BPJ is responsible for recent happenings and to drive it home to him inside his ivory towers.
Fair dos to Reg Owens he told Adams straight, a bit more straight talking like that would be welcome.
On the 20th of December I posted that I thought that by the next local Council elections, we should be in a position to judge as to whether we were getting value from our Councillors.
I think that we can all now be in no doubt that the time is way past for a change; not only for the ruling group, but also for their supporters and the abstainers!
Myles Pepper’s absence was a disappointment, but I think the events of Feb 14th meeting put the frighteners on him. Shame the people of Fishguard could not be represented. Otherwise it was another sad day for Pembrokeshire. I was pleased to see that Gwilym Price voted for.
I am a Fishguard Councillor Gogledd, and I certainly did vote for the motion of no confidence and represented the people of Fishguard. I was also one of the fourteen councillors who submitted the motion.
Good on you Pat, you did represent your constituents and so did 22 other councillors.
I’m so disappointed to see Michael John voted against no confidence in the chief exec.
I had heard he abstained which I really wasn’t expecting and thought was bad enough, but to see here that he actually voted against the motion really does shock me to the core.
I’m not a great fan of stateside politics, but what we need here is the opportunity to vote for key local government positions like the Americans do. If BPJ had to campaign to get the job he would have no doubt stumbled at the first hurdle.
Well done those who supported the motion. I agree with Cannon123 that if the motion been been passed then BPJ would still have been hard to actually get rid of but at least what I believe to be the majority feeling of the Pembrokeshire people would have been heard.
It was a good debate, quite a bit of waffle from some members and strong feelings from the motion supporters. I thought the votes against were largely driven by a belief that things have changed, especially as regards “safeguarding”. The sensitive area is social services, everywhere else the electorate get what they pay for.
I didn’t hear much said about the low council taxes, do not expect radical change from the electorate if adequate services can be delivered for £250-£300 less per tax payer than the Welsh average.
BPJ is a very capable administrator, though one whose past record seems to show he is especially adept at “real politik”. This proficiency is the root cause of his present unpopularity with a significant number of members. This vote was not going to remove him, though ironically it may have helped the ruling group manage him, if they have any capacity to do so.
Jamie Adams referred to his working relationship with BPJ. It is hugely significant what Jamie Adams stands for politically, very little it seems. One assumed that the pension scheme is BPJ’s idea, likewise the ambush in the last meeting. If either is the case, there can be little doubt that this is a version of Yes Minister where Sir Nigel is totally in control.
Worryingly for the future, the Kerr trick can be played again and again, welcome Pembs’s newest overpaid employee. The members should have voted no confidence on the monitoring officer, the only way to prevent such gross political manipulation is to ensure a monitoring officer who is less malleable.
Spot on Llangwm Lass.
Certainly the CEO is in a statutory position to affect the way in which the Council operates through the Council’s Constitution. Currently the rules as drafted by officers and approved by a majority of councillors are very effective in keeping the levers of decision making away from elected members, and firmly in the hands of officers through the terms of delegated powers.
Yet again we had to endure the Leader expressing his view that they had to listen. When is he going to act and do something to correct all the wrongs?
Just read the latest missive by OG about “was red now blue” Sue. She must be totally embarrassed and ashamed about her behaviour in criticising others for abandoning the party and then doing the same herself.
Mind you, the party is pretty weak for not chucking her out on her ear if she has broken party rules.
Come on Sue – do the decent thing. Resign and let’s have a by election. If you are so sure that you have support you should welcome the challenge.
Llangwm Lass, I agree wholeheartedly.
I had the good fortune to work in Monkton for quite a few years on the Communities First programme working closely with Cllr Pearl Llewellyn. Unfortunately I don’t have the same recollection of the wonderful work that PCC did there as she does.
When money was provided for the Council to employ contractors to upgrade the Courts area I observed with dismay how shoddily the work was being carried out. Gardens were paved with slabs which were not concreted in properly and were unsafe. Walls were knocked down, re-plastered and painted in the same week.
Within weeks the paint was peeling off the walls. I told Pearl as Councillor she should use her influence and queried where the Clerk of Works was and who was overseeing the work to no avail. I remember saying to her “it’s shocking and dangerous Pearl and they wouldn’t get away with this shoddy work in Lamphey”.
I spluttered when I heard her mentioning the food bank, I thought is she alluding to the tax dodge when she’s saying about young mums having to use the food bank? Is she going to vote for the motion of no confidence in BPJ? Sadly as I suspected and as we all saw, the answer was no.
I once asked a resident why people voted for her and the reply was “well she lives here doesn’t she”. Enough said. Monkton is a fabulous community and everyone there deserves far better.
After a couple of days of reflection, as our dear leader would say, I have a few comments.
Peter Stock – “I never sit on the fence” – ’nuff said.
Jacob – Chairman Arwyn obviously had it in for you on Thursday. Do you think you could report him to the Ombudsman for refusing you a point of order amongst other things?
I think the way in which Bryn asked Arwyn if he wanted him to leave the chamber during the debate of no confidence in him just demonstrates his arrogance. After all the fuss about the original meeting re his pension arrangements etc. you think he would have the decency to just get up and walk out. At least Pugh did that.
Still waiting to hear from Peter Stock re his abstention. Does anyone know if he has offered a reason publicly or is he just reading all the negative comments and keeping his head down?
Jonathan Nutting, can you ask Peter if he will respond to those wanting to know his reasoning given his apparent assurance that he would never sit on the fence?
Peter Stock has answered your question under another post, Martin. His answer is that he wanted to be fair!
LOL at “fair”. Gutless and indecisive would be more accurate.
In my opinion every non-IPG councillor who voted against the motion or abstained (or possibly even failed to show up) did so for their own personal reasons.