Thursday, 19th November, 2015
Alison Lee joins IPPG
Pembroke Dock councillor Alison Lee has joined Pembrokeshire County Council’s ruling IPPG party.
Her new political affiliation follows Cllr. Pearl Llewellyn’s own resignation from the same unpopular ‘independent’ party last week.
It’s arguably the most hypocritical development in recent council history – from a crowded field of contenders – as Cllr. Lee previously pledged in no uncertain terms to the Pembrokeshire Herald, when asked the direct question: “I will not be joining the Independent Group.”.
First elected for the town’s Central ward in 2012 for the Labour party, Cllr. Lee raised eyebrows last summer when she accepted council leader Jamie Adams’ offer of a £29k cabinet post despite having co-signed and supported no confidence motion against him weeks beforehand.
She had hoped to remain a Labour councillor but didn’t receive the approval of the group’s leader, Cllr. Paul Miller, who said she would be thrown out if she didn’t give up her £29k cabinet seat.
Cllr. Lee was subsequently ejected after refusing to let go. Rather than joining the IPPG she served as the council’s first unaffiliated cabinet member.
In its October 24th edition last year, following her elevation to the vacant cabinet portfolio for housing, the Herald reported:
On the question of her joining the IPPG, Alison Lee was clear: “I will not be joining the Independent Group. Jamie Adams made it very clear that was not a problem and I will be sitting in the Cabinet as an unaffiliated member of the Council.”
Responding to criticisms that she had only accepted the lucrative gig for the extra cash, Cllr. Lee told the Herald:
“I want to get one thing out of the way first. This is not about money, but I would be lying if I said that the money from being in the Cabinet will come in very handy. I am a single mother with two children at home.”
Elsewhere she levelled thinly veiled criticisms at Cllr. Miller, suggesting that he had his own financial motive in booting her out as he would forgo his £8k opposition group leader bonus if she remained a Labour cabinet member.
When questioned for the Herald’s exclusive on why she accepted the post from a man she opposed just weeks earlier, Cllr. Lee said:
“It is fair to say that I did not have confidence in Jamie Adams, but I am satisfied now that he is committed to the principles of working together across the political divide.”
Ah! The power of promotion! Remarkable how a cabinet post can restore lost confidence, and even more remarkable how soon Cllr. Adams’ commitment to cross-party politics waned in the wake of recent events.
Until last week Jamie’s IPPG held a one seat majority of the council’s sixty seats. Cllr. Llewellyn’s resignation – tipping the balance between the opposition and the IPPG to 30-30 – had dire consequences for the ruling group, costing a national park seat (£3.6k per year bonus for one its members) as well as the loss of its majority of seats on all committees.
The unwelcome ramifications immediately led to speculation that its leader, Cllr. Adams, would seek to recruit a new member to redress the balance.
By virtue of his absolute gift to appoint members to his cabinet, all attention turned to Cllr. Lee – the opposition member over which Cllr. Adams had the most leverage.
An obedient gal during her cabinet tenure, Cllr. Lee was widely regarded as one of the IPPG in all but name. Breaking her pledge not to join the IPPG this morning means Jamie regains his slim command of the council – and Alison retains her cabinet seat.
Alison follows a path well-trodden by Labour turncoats among the current cabinet lineup. Her pal Cllr. Sue Perkins – also from Pembroke Dock – and Neyland’s Cllr. Simon Hancock both left the council’s Labour group as long-standing members to join the IPPG, in similar stories involving cabinet posts and personal ambition.
But there’s plenty of hypocrisy with this latest development – and it’s not solely Alison Lee’s door.
At the October council meeting last year I tabled a question asking the leader about his cabinet change, where he replaced Cllr. David Simpson with Cllr. Lee. The following section quoted from the meeting’s minutes speaks for itself:
The Leader of Council responded to a question submitted by Councillor Jacob Williams prior to the meeting in accordance with the provisions of Council Procedure Rule 9.2, as follows:
Could the Leader explain all of the reasons why he no longer wished for Cllr. David Simpson to serve in his Cabinet?
The Leader stated that the selection of Members to serve on the Cabinet was entirely a matter for the Leader and did not require justification at Council meetings. He further stated that he would not be goaded into any character assassination.
In response to a supplementary question, the Leader stated that he was determined to work with all groups to move the Council forward and that he would not place any pressure or requirement on Councillor Alison Lee to become a Member of the Independent Plus Group.
I’m currently attempting to change the council’s policy that webcasts of meetings older than a year are automatically deleted. My motion has yet to be debated, however I retain my own copies in the JW Archive and I have consulted the recording of this particular occasion.
In my follow-up I asked Cllr Adams if he would give a reassurance that he would not require Cllr. Lee to join his group. After thanking me for raising the matter he said: “I reiterate my determination to work with all members, all groups and even non-groups,” and then gave the clear reassurance I was after: “There will be no pressure from myself for Cllr Lee to become a member of our group and I’m happy to place this on record.”
I intend to revisit this matter of record with the leader by tabling a question to the upcoming December full council meeting.
❏In other news, another belly is soon to be filled with the upcoming appointment of a new chair of the council’s planning committee. The £22k post – which is appointed by full council not the leader – became available following Cllr. Myles Pepper’s promotion to cabinet, when he replaced Cllr. Rob Summons.
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What a scab. Can’t wait to see what she has to say about this after her firm denial that she would ever do this.
SO predictable, can’t wait for the press release written by Jamie about how she feels she can bring a positive contribution to whatever role she’s been bought with.
So refreshing to see the rotten borough mentality is still alive in Pembrokeshire.
I was beginning to think we would have politics that benefited the county not the councillor. Phew! What a relief that Cllr. Lee restored my cynic’s viewpoint in the dark haunting corners of County Hall!
As the saying goes Alison, “in for a penny in for £29k”, let’s hope a seat on the national park is yours before Christmas too so you can help those less fortunate than yourself. I am of course referring to the people of Pembrokeshire, you know, the ones you are supposedly representing.
I pose a question to all councillors: how many nails will you have forged before you understand that they will be used by others to secure the coffin lid on Pembrokeshire?
Yes, there are a number of councillors in the chamber that truly do work for the people of Pembrokeshire but they also need to see what they have done to restore order and sanity.
Shameless! Utterly shameless!
Beneath contempt.
Alison’s hypocrisy wouldn’t have been quite so stark had she not spilt her guts to the Herald, but even without the presence of this quote-laden goldmine, it’s not beyond the wit of Pembrokeshire voters to see exactly what’s going on here.
As for Jamie’s pledge that he wouldn’t pressure Alison to join his party, that’s simple to get around – he delegated that task to one or both of his two Pembroke Dock lieutenants!
Get the media involved, do interviews pointing out how easy it is for councillors to drop any pretence of representing their electorates when Jamie Adams comes calling with his bucket of taxpayers’ money. Keep naming names.
I see Christopher Salmon is just as free and easy with taxpayers’ money too. Funnily enough there’s nothing about this in the WT or the other one.
Well worth following this link: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/senior-police-officer-given-55000-10426928
It makes me ashamed to be a member of PCC.
Nothing surprises me anymore, but the way members jump ship displays a total lack of honesty and integrity.
Others are members of political parties, but when it comes to local elections they dream up a party name of their own, in order to mislead their electorate. Duplicity is the name of the game.
Will Pembrokeshire see through these snake oil purveyors in 18 months’ time? One can only hope.
Flashbang, according to the link you provided, the £55,000 removal expenses were paid out in March 2012 and Salmon wasn’t elected until November 2012. So it’s a bit unfair to hang that particular excess around his neck.
If Alison Lee was to be thrown out of the Labour Party if she became a Cabinet member, why wasn’t Simon Hancock shown the same door?
Mike Stoddart, I missed that bit, sorry. Any idea who did authorise such ridiculous amounts to be paid out? It’s still a scandal either way.
The final roll of the dice for Farmer Adams. After ‘Labour Lee’ there are no more lemmings left to sell their morals and keep the wolves from the Farmer’s door.
If any more scandals hit the council it will self implode! Hang on, education leader Kate ‘I’m your mate’ Evan-Hughes is recommending to an emergency council meeting next week to reconsider proposals for secondary education reform in Haverfordwest.
At what expense to the taxpayer, bearing in mind the ‘working at risk’ issue at Pembroke School and the legal advice which now suggests that the Tasker Milward Trustees were right all along in highlighting the illegal pathway the council followed in its consultation process.
Thursday’s extraordinary meeting on the Haverfordwest school proposals could be councillors’ opportunity to open the door for change: what are the in house legal team contributing and are they competent without BPJ and will Kate keep her job that is now advertised on a permanent basis at over £100k a year? Unfortunately the sums don’t add up.
It would be interesting also to court the view of the Stoddart clan. This after the recent Hakin/Hubberston school debacle and also that of this website’s author, who questioned the council’s head legal eagle Claire ‘if you dare’ Incledon over the Tasker Milward Trust issue at a full council meeting earlier this year.
Surely all councillors must be questioning the advice of two senior officers and not accepting the Farmer’s bleating that everything’s ok in the farmyard.
The students’ voice is to keep an 11-19 school in Haverfordwest. Which councillors will now listen to the weight of support for this ahead of the advice of their own officers?
So Christmas has come early in Pembroke Dock.
Surely in a democracy organised around people voting for representatives of a specific political party at election time, changing party political allegiance mid term should trigger a by-election. Could this not be stitched into the constitution?
Flashbang, that would be the former police authority on which PCC was represented by Cllrs John Davies and David Neale.
Cllr Davies’ membership is easy to explain – as leader of PCC he made the appointments – though it is an enduring mystery why he thought Cllr Neale was a suitable candidate.
By the way, these positions attracted an allowance worth eight grand a year.
Cllr Davies’ attempts to acquire a better seat seat on the gravy train are recorded here and here.
Preservation of Special Responsibility Allowances by maintaining the IPG majority appears to be the priority or, at least to limp long enough to the next election.
Keep Pembrokeshire so that the preferred SRA gravy train can be perpetuated? Should councillors declare a potential pecuniary interest preservation of the single county instead of returning to the merged Dyfed?
It is about time we had a Reform Act for councillors’ conduct on party membership both at election time and after.
Any glimmer of democracy is dead and buried in Pembrokeshire, as is the promised change in council ethos, or perhaps this didn’t extend to IPG councillors.
As a matter of interest, how many JPs, past and present, are councillors and members of the IPG?
Mike Stoddart, thanks for the clarification, I somehow guessed the usual suspects would be involved. It just proves the point that the Police Commissioner post is a totally superfluous waste of taxpayers money.
It is interesting how desperately the IPPG want to cling to power, yet in my time on the council I cannot remember one Notice of Motion from their ranks, one statement on policy or any sense that they have any ideas on the direction of the future of Pembrokeshire.
Everyone has their price, it’s just a question of the amount!
I just hope that mine is so high that it’s way over the ‘perceived benefit’ of someone who wishes to influence my decisions! Not that I’m in a position of power anyway.
At least some things in life are constant!
I think I have now reached saturation point. I simply can’t muster the energy to be even slightly surprised or scandalised by this latest revelation!
Pembrokeshire has been brought so low by the relentless onslaught of filth and sleaze from Adams and Co. that I barely raised a questioning eyebrow when reading JW’s post.
So let’s leave the IPIGs roll around in the sty until election day and then collectively hit the EJECT button on the whole sorry lot of them.
In fact, I think the only thing that would get me well and truly worked up right now would be even a hint of disapproval from the lunatic fringe (AKA The Pembrokeshire Alliance) pot/kettle and all that…
I see that under this dynamic council we are back to square one on the education consultation stakes, again.
Kids must hope they will get things right for the future of their education service.
Hypocrisy, corruption, gravy train etc is the constant abuse directed at the IPG and farmer Adams. I have no love for our PCC leaders and would reform the entire system that has allowed them to bring our county down to the point of ridicule so that Pembrokeshire headlines in Private Eye.
However the system is the one that we all have to operate under and as the saying goes, we are where we are.
Joining the IPG is not a crime, it’s her personal choice and the only people who will be able to call her to account are the electorate of her ward. If she is doing a good job in that ward she may well survive despite the hot air that has been expressed on this and other sites. I will have no influence in that vote as I live outside that ward.
So I am more interested in how well she is doing the job that she has in Cabinet, as that role does affect the whole of the county not just her ward. I see no mention of her abilities, in either direction, just the hypocrisy from the usual politically motivated commentators complaining about other people playing politics.
Personally I would pick the best person for the job, based on their skills and experience, irrespective of their present or previous political allegiance. However, as I said before, we are where we are and if she is doing a good job in Cabinet then she would have my full support.
Fishguard Boy, I think the evidence for Cllr. Lee’s hypocrisy has been set out clearly and speaks for itself. If you don’t agree, to borrow another saying from your phrase book: “there we are then!”
Yet you criticise those discussing Cllr. Lee’s hypocrisy as being ‘politically motivated,’ ‘playing politics’ and accuse them of ‘hypocrisy!’ – offering no evidence to explain why.
If it’s an analysis of merits and suitability for the cabinet’s housing portfolio you’re after, to complement my highlighting Cllr. Lee’s shameless personal greed, I suggest you have that conversation with the leader.
All I can say is that with his vast business success and experience, the former holder Cllr. David Simpson is in my opinion more qualified and able, as I’m sure several other councillors are.
You might also wish to ask the leader why, following the devastating loss of his group’s majority last week, the main qualification he sought in his cabinet member for housing was that she had to be a member of his group – when he had previously put on record that it didn’t matter to him and he was committed to cross-party work.
Hypocrisy? In spades! Were political motivations involved? You bet!
Is Alison Lee doing a good job in her ward? Have you ever been to Pembroke Dock?
Can the best person for a cabinet job EVER be someone that’s proved to be devoid of any integrity by the decisions she’s made after being elected?
Including her own admission that her decision to leave the party under whose umbrella she was elected was motivated by money?
You simply can’t trust someone like that to DO a good job in my opinion.
There is no news in Cllr Lee having a price, she was already bought and paid for with her appointment. The maths did not require Farmer Adams to pressurise her, her sinecure would be in peril if she didn’t join the IPPG, simple as that.
The question is how good is she at her job? Given she came to council on a socialist ticket, you think her concerns should be with the quality of the council’s provisions for housing needs. However, the rather right-wing IPPG agenda is to procure the lowest taxes more or less regardless of any scruples to where and how costs are cut.
Her job in cabinet is therefore to more or less continue this process of keeping housing costs down regardless. The very people most likely to suffer here are the same people whose vote she sought to get elected by.
Still the impasse had another possible solution, coalition with the Conservatives who might sign up to the agenda, but would find the IPPG too toxic to formally make an alliance. It would also rattle the slightly pinker end of the IPPG spectrum.
Would Cllr Pepper’s elevation have some merit in that part of the IPPG flexing some muscle?
Questions have to be asked about the credibility of the Director of Education. Is she fit for purpose?
Rosieone, I am a member of the Pembrokeshire Alliance. I strongly disapprove of quite a lot of things going on within PCC. I consider myself quite principled and try to engage in constructive dialogue with all.
I am rather surprised that the majority of regular, jaundiced viewed contributors to this site have even bothered to beat their chest over this new twist. It was obviously going to happen. The main problem is education, education, education and to be worried about silly political posturing is sadly to again lose sight of what matters.
The mistakes that have been allowed to occur and carry on are eye wateringly poor. I am sorry to say that the vast majority of councillors have no clue about how to solve them.
It appears we all hope that some magic wand will be waved and further dialogue will come up with an astonishingly clever solution. Actually I suspect they will all be subjected to further misinformation, railroading and browbeating to get through what is obviously a very flawed and cobbled together master plan.
So where did it start to go so badly wrong? The first mistake was to allow the Pembroke Campus to go ahead without firmly resolving the Pembrokeshire College issue. This was then compounded by caving in over St. David’s. I was only one of two councillors to vote against this very poorly thought out U-turn.
I don’t blame everyone from St. David’s wishing to keep their school, but this was definitely not the best thing for the rest of Pembrokeshire. We now see the results.
The only solution I can see is to tell the college that the new Pembroke Campus will happen whatever. They can either work with us or not. I would go ahead with the new schools in Haverfordwest. An 11-19 at Taskers and a new Welsh medium 3-16 school at Sir Thomas Picton.
The rest I would leave for at least 3 years and let market forces take hold. Then I would revisit education in the north of the county and resolve the problems with full consultation. I actually quite like some of the ideas I have heard for education in St. David’s. Not sure the people of Solva etc are as keen.
Three years planning etc would give the chance to test out some of these innovative ideas before being committed to. Sorry if I have left Rosieone foaming at the mouth. I will try not to have a sleepless night at the thought. 😉
Mr Nutting, you appear to confirm my thoughts that, by the action taken, this decision will take at least another 3 to 5 years, by which time PCC will cease to exist as per WAG’s insistence that we are amalgamated with other authorities.
The danger then will be that the money, supplied by the Welsh Government, will be taken on a ‘pro-rata’ basis, and, due to our limited numbers, will be swallowed up in Carmarthenshire, with Pembrokeshire being left with very little.
The truth may well prove to be that the Welsh Government has its own agenda for Pembrokeshire, and they may well be the dog wagging the tail…
What better way for them to divert attention from their intentions, such as stipulating the way that PCC had to implement the master plan.
I also note, what responsible councillor in Pembrokeshire would put forward a plan to build on property they didn’t actually own?
Was it due to Councillors ‘forgetting’ which Council/Town Council/Charitable Trust/ Governor’s meeting they were attending?
Thank you Cllr Nutting, although I’m not entirely sure where the rambling education manifesto came from.
My post merely referenced how dangerously and idiotically close the Pembrokeshire Alliance have come in the past to exactly what Cllr Lee has done. By that I mean abandoning good sense, moral compass, and dignity in return for SRAs and a seat at the big boys’ table (or snout in the trough)…
It’s not the snout in the trough that’s the problem, it’s what comes out the other side!
Jonathan Nutting, you must take the contributors on here for mugs. It wasn’t that long ago that your Pembrokeshire Alliance was trying to get into bed with the much hated IPPG and get their hands on the SRAs that come with it.
If you strongly disapprove of the IPPG why were you cosying up to them? Most of us are well aware about county politicians who are only in it for the money and would sell their grandmothers without a moment’s thought.
The people of the county deserve much better and it would be a great thing if there was a way to get rid of money grubbers and dishonest charlatans by a recall mechanism. Does that count as foaming at the mouth too?
I actually thought what I have said was concise. If you want rambling then I suggest you try and digest some of the information provided by PCC on the subject.
I was a teacher etc for thirty years. It tends to give you some insight into the workings of the system.
I tried to allay your worries about my moral compass. Mistakes have been made. I and the others regret them. It was a steep learning curve. Lessons were learnt.
I can assure you we have very few things in common with the morally corrupt ruling group. I actually believe in the manifesto etc the Alliance produced. You would do well to read it before commenting further.
Pembrokeshire is a relatively liberal place I still can’t see it lurching towards any of the main parties in the next local elections. I hope we will provide a reasonable alternative. It is one of our aims to snuff out completely the self centred approach that has become a corrupting influence in local politics over the last decade.
I for one am keen to look carefully at SRAs and the way they are used. They should not be tools to corrupt or seen as thirty pieces of silver. They are there, as in many business, as rewards for good practice and leadership.
I for one need some form of payment for the work I do. Alison Lee is in the same position (as a matter of fact she works hard to make sure her portfolio runs smoothly. She has helped families in my ward when I have asked her). I try to act professionally within the Nolan Principles of public life. If in future I take on responsibilities for some aspects of council work then I would expect to be reimbursed for my time etc.
Pembrokeshire desperately needs credible politics and councillors. If you continue to castigate everyone who puts their head above the parapet then you put off those we need; those who care and have the ability to challenge and lead. Pembrokeshire desperately needs these people if it is not to continue being seen as a backwater in the Wild West. I don’t hear much about the social deprivation, the badly balanced economy, the draining away of our talented youth etc on this site 🙁
At the moment if you are not a blogger then you must be a fool or corrupt or both. Some commentators on this site do real harm to this county’s future.
I look forward to the next set of sneers with trepidation 🙂
Fishguard Boy, you say: “Joining the IPG is not a crime, it’s her personal choice and the only people who will be able to call her to account are the electorate of her ward.”
We can never know how many of the good folk of Pembroke Dock Central voted for Cllr Lee because they wanted to be represented by a Labour councillor, but we can be sure that any who did have been taken for a ride.
And the problem is that they will have had to wait for two-and-a-half years to “call her to account” by which time she will have banked almost £40,000 in Cabinet SRA.
Still, that’s an improvement on the other two Labour defectors (Cllrs Sue Perkins and Simon Hancock) who will each pocket a £75,000 reward for ratting on the Labour Party.
I would also point out that conclusions based on propositions containing “if” as in “if she is doing a good job in Cabinet then she would have my full support”, are little more than statements of the obvious.
My grandmother used to counter such arguments by saying: “If we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs, if we had some eggs.”
Yet again people are insulted by a councillor paid out of public money.
If anyone needs a PR consultant I’d be happy to oblige. For a few thousand, obviously.
Cllr Nutting, I feel I must take issue with a few things you’ve said: you state that the Pembrokeshire Alliance has “very few things in common with the morally corrupt ruling group” yet the most divisive thing about the IPPG is that the vast majority of them stood before the electorate as one thing (independent, Labour etc) and once elected formed a political group that the wards they represented had not been allowed to consider as an option.
Could you just remind us if you or Cllrs Stock and Kilmister stood as Pembrokeshire Alliance candidates? Or did you also form a political group that your wards had not been allowed to show an opinion on?
Please inform us how we will get the “credible politics and councillors” we “desperately need” with this sort of underhand behaviour in the council chamber.
Also, I for one don’t “castigate everyone who puts their head above the parapet” only those that deserve it, namely the IPPG and your own PA, for reasons set out at the beginning of this post.
It’s a shame that you think you are being sneered at, but at the end of the day, you sought public office, you joined the PA, you were part of the shady deal to prop up the ruling group and therefore it is only fair that you be held accountable and not allowed to forget it quite as quickly as you might like to.
This whole stream has been related to the leader’s contemptuous use of SRAs to stay in power, a scandalous activity that the Pembrokeshire Alliance are all too familiar with…
Cllr Nutting, After making two lengthy but largely incoherent contributions to this thread, you have every reason to feel trepidatious.
No amount of obfuscation can conceal the fact that Bob Kilmister, the Leader of your party – the one that promised a new sort of politics in Pembrokeshire – was in serious coalition negotiations (his own words) to lend his support (and yours, presumably?) to Jamie Adams in exchange for the Deputy Leadership of the Council with an SRA of £19,000 a year on top of his £13,000 basic allowance.
If you believed even half of the guff you have posted above (and I’m not saying you don’t) then you should have resigned from the Pembrokeshire Alliance the moment you discovered your Leader had been putting his own personal ambitions ahead of the principles outlined in your manifesto.
As for commentators on this site doing harm to the county’s future, words fail me. However I would agree that this site has harmed the Pembrokeshire Alliance’s future, by highlighting Bob Kilmister’s hypocrisy to even consider entering negotiations to prop up the IPPG in a grubby deal.
It’s called accountability – which comes as part of the deal when standing for public office!
Back on topic…can we now refer to the female triumvirate of ex Labour Party members as Jamie’s Angels please? A picture of the three in a classic pose would make a fabulous Christmas card for the IPPG faithful.
Yawn…what a shame that you are not able to see further than your own rhetoric.
I’d love to meet some of you in real life. I wonder if you are able to progress past the use of invective into meaningful dialogue?
This reminds me of playing with a couple of Jack Russells that I had a few years ago.
Oh well enough for now. Time to let you sort out our ills without my ‘guff’ distracting your highly articulate debate. 😉
I agree with the comments made by Mike Stoddart, Rosieone and Observer. Alison Lee was elected on a Labour ticket and has now joined another political party. Cllr Nutting stood as an Independent before joining the Pembrokeshire Alliance. The electorate has been duped by both.
As far as I am concerned the next election can’t come soon enough.
There, there Jonny Bach, are we upset with Rosieone’s nasty remarks?
Recent comments have been getting a little personal. It is a shame, because such achieves nothing and people like Cllr Nutting should be encouraged to contribute to this blog.
Most councillors are quite conscientious, even in the IPPG, though quite a few are ineffective, but that is another matter.
The authority was more or less set up to minimise the influence of the elected members, given the fragmented politics of the county, something like the IPPG was inevitable within this structure. It would be interesting, Jacob, to delve into the formation of independent groups when the authority was established.
Stifling the elected body put power in the hands of the cabinet and the senior officers more than it should. When the Ministerial Board came down, their initial thinking was that the councillors were negligent in holding the council to account, they then found out how stifled they were.
The lack of due procedure, recorded minutes of meetings etc was generously accepted as sloppiness, though the cynic would argue that such was quite intended.
For the elected body to gain any real control over this, 31 councillors will have to act in unison. This means talking with people they may not agree with. It could well include current IPPG members (the maths indicates at least 2). It may also include some members changing their parties – say a rainbow alliance under a leader pledged to change things had 29 members, would Jacob or Mike be reasonable in forgoing their aloof moral high ground by joining?
They could also join the IPPG and be invited to “secret meetings”, though somehow I don’t think their membership secretary is going to play ball.
If politicians were banned from leaving parties mid term, corrupt or incompetent parties could struggle on – watch Labour over the next year or so. So please give politicians some latitude here.
Timetraveller, a similar argument to yours was trotted out by Cllr. Jamie Adams after the 2012 election results were in, to sign up members to his group who would elect him council leader.
I’m afraid it’s a hopelessly flawed theory as it’s based upon the bizarre premise that a council of mostly ‘independent’ councillors could be controlled by the largest party consisting of only a handful.
Not only is it mathematical nonsense but there is no need for a majority of supposedly independent councillors to form a political group – an oxymoron if ever there was one – and nothing to stop them administering the council outside of one.
You might wish to consider why nobody stood for election on the basis that they would seek to climb the greasy pole no matter what it takes, and no matter whose banner they’d change to mid-term. I suspect it’s because they wouldn’t be elected.
As for your final point, I’m not aware that anybody is suggesting that politicians should be banned from leaving parties mid-term.
But if they wish to change affiliation they should give the public the chance to approve or refuse the change – that’s the only reason they are in office, after all.
You might also wish to consider Paul Davies AM’s remarks following the 2012 election when, despite being elected as a Tory, Cllr. Owen James refused to join the council’s Conservative group and sat as an unaffiliated councillor.
See: http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/9728129.Calls_for_by_election_after_councillor_leaves_Conservative_group/
He said: “As a matter of principle, Cllr James should now resign and force a by-election so that the people of Scleddau can decide whether they wish a Welsh Conservative to continue representing them at County Hall. Refusing to give the residents of this ward the opportunity to determine who should serve them would be a democratic betrayal.”
While Cllr. David Howlett, the Conservatives’ leader on the council said it was “frankly a betrayal of the people who voted for him as a Welsh Conservative candidate,” and that Cllr. James “must resign the seat and allow a by-election to take place.”
Interesting, then, that neither Mr. Davies nor Cllr. Howlett made such noises shortly afterwards when Cllr. David Bryan joined the Conservative group, having been elected independent at the 2012 election.
Is that the sort of latitude you ask for politicians to be given?
Timetraveller, would you really have us believe that Cllr Lee is now a member of the IPPG because she thought the Labour Party to be corrupt or incompetent and that it has nothing to do with clinging for dear life to her SRA?
Politicians are in office because they were chosen to be by the electorate, how many voters put their mark next to Cllr Lee because they wanted a Labour councillor who shared their ideals?
I have no issue with councillors switching parties, but why not stand down forcing a ballot so that they can be considered under their new colours?
And just a quick retort about personal comments and encouraging people like Cllr Nutting to contribute to this blog, I think you’ll find he left this thread in something of a huff whilst comparing me to a Jack Russell Terrier…
Politics has sometimes been called the art of the possible, issues are rarely black and white. Ideally a politician should be re-elected every time they changed allegiance, across the country that would be a lot of by-elections – still it might invigorate political debate.
One issue is that the IPPG is only a quasi political party, and such nebulous parties might proliferate with politicians outwardly maintaining their nominal allegiance.
Given the fragmented politics of Pembrokeshire, badly needed change would result in a multitude of by-elections, as given its structure the IPPG is probably incapable of internal reform, a rebel leadership contest would have to effectively form or join another group. In this instance, by-elections would merely inhibit any such rebellion.
You mention Cllr James and his change of affiliation. He is still very much a conservative and active within that movement, which is a broad church in any case. A good number of IPPG members are, or were, members of that same party. The difference with Cllr Lee is that her change of affiliation involves a radical change of political flavour, unless of course the IPPG is morphing to the left (unlikely).
That is what I mean by giving politicians some latitude, they all eventually have to face the electorate in any case.
Nor was I suggesting that Pembs Labour is corrupt or incompetent and grounds for Cllr Lee to leave. That illustration is yet to happen and is being played out on the national stage. Labour have lurched violently to the left on the back of so called grassroots participation. When this happened before, a number of Labour MPs formed the Lib-Dems, such options are open for what might be called mainstream MPs to force their party back to the centre.
However one does have to ask why, what should be the focus of opposition in Pembrokeshire, the Labour group, seems to be able to lose so many members? Too much infighting perhaps?
Timetraveller, I doubt there is any more infighting in the Labour group than any other political group.
My own view, albeit biased, is that the Labour group has always contained members who are ambitious for power and as they are not likely to get it whilst the Indies hold sway, some are tempted to the dark side. The money is certainly a factor, but not the only one.
P.S. Labour membership in Preseli Pembrokeshire constituency has more than doubled since the general election. I hope that out of the additional members we get more, and good candidates for 2017.
Whilst she is holidaying in Switzerland currently and away from the outrage and disgust of her decisions…I wonder if she is thinking of some of those who voted her in as a Labour candidate, who are now having to go to food banks as she lavishes herself on the piste!
True Blue Sue, Pearl the Girl and now we have Alison Flea – so named as she jumps from one party to another!
Yes, our political masters, and those who would be, certainly feel entitled to live better than the rest of us whatever colour of Tory they happen to be at any particular time.
But the debate about Alison Lee’s competence has another dimension. She already has the loot. So if she’s doing a good job and deserves it then that is independent of the IPPG so why join it?
And if she’s not doing a good job and doesn’t deserve it then how will joining the IPPG change that?
Clive, measuring if Cllr Lee is “doing a good job” depends on your perspective.
She could be helping slum landlords invest in the county, perhaps a little grant here or there to move things along.
She could be working on schemes to turn all sorts of unlikely premises into badly needed accommodation.
She could be fighting to improve social housing.
Or she could leave the council officers to get on with it, without asking too many questions, perhaps staying as long as she liked in Switzerland.
I wager that Jamie would value her contribution most in that latter laissez faire option, isn’t that what he does?
You’ve got to pay top money for such talent.
Exactly what does a Cabinet member, without any personal responsibility, do? They share collective responsibility and therefore decisions can only be made at Cabinet meetings, based on reports/recommendations by officers.
They do answer for their nominated portfolio at council meetings. Hence you get assurances that all was well with the Cleddau Bridge, which was said to be kept under regular review by the relevant Cabinet member with the Director of Finance.
This matter was also reviewed, based on officers’ reports, by the relevant O&S committee. Although some members had expressed reservations, the committee found all to be well on the “instruction” of the IPG Chairman. Until, that is, the Wales Audit Office had an independent critical look.
To Jonathan Nutting and other councillors who are a little bit miffed at people voicing their opinions, you’d all do well to read the comments on this website, Western Telegraph etc to gauge public feeling and react according to your constituents’ feelings and concerns.
Well said Martin Lewis, democracy in action!
It’s startling how often our elected representatives in County Hall take offence at being held to account over their actions.
I doubt any one of them had their arms twisted into standing for election.
As the saying goes, “if you can’t stand the heat…”
I challenged Cllr. Nutting when he first joined the Pembrokeshire Alliance to resign and face his electorate again. He has trousered £18k as a councillor since that gauntlet was laid down and is still of the opinion there is no place for party politics in Pembrokeshire.
Now is the time for him to put his money where his mouth is. Resign and force an election, standing under the Pembrokeshire Alliance flag and see if those in his ward elect him.
The 24k on offer to the successful candidate will then be well earned and he/she can stand tall at the Kremlin with the wholesome support of the constituents they represent.
The antics of Farmer Adams and his sheep in this council’s term of office have left Welsh Government with little option but to bring back Dyfed. There may well be a farmyard scenario in that scenario but rest assured there would be accountability and scrutiny, to make sure the mistakes we have suffered don’t happen again.
If you don’t like the answers, perhaps you shouldn’t invite the questions…
I’m afraid Jon Boy that it may well be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire! It could well be that this ‘behaviour’ at County Hall has been orchestrated from Cardiff Bay, thus allowing them to carve up Wales as they so wish.
Just look at how many more committees have been set up by the Welsh Assembly! They could well be the masters that the Kremlin are aspiring to.
When we were Dyfed, we were always the poor relation. I cannot see anything changing. All the funding will end at St Clears. And, no doubt, we will still have more councillors doing even less!
I note the comment of Cllr Lee that it was “not about money, but she would be lying if she said the money she received from being in the Cabinet would not come in handy, as she was a single mother with two children”.
I do not know anything about Cllr Lee and the fathering of her children or any marriages but to use her single mother status in this issue is wrong.
I do believe at one stage a comment was made that she had a full time position as well as receiving a council remuneration, clearly a very energetic lady. I would have thought that the raising of two children would be a full time position.
I hope she comes knocking on my door come the next election. What a nerve this woman has.
She won’t come knocking on anyone’s door next election as I doubt VERY much she will be standing. This is an example of a rat staying with the sinking ship to drain every last bit of resource she can before the ship finally goes under.
Jamie Adams and his footsoldiers, Hall &a Perkins, will have told Ms Lee to just ride out the storm, it will all be over in a few weeks and forgotten about.
I can assure her that it HASN’T and WON’T be forgotten about. People I speak to in Pembroke Dock are still talking about this appalling behaviour weeks later. People have long memories…let’s hope they’re long enough.
Not about the money!!! Councillor Lee had to ensure that the paymaster and his tribe retained their majority and the key to the treasure trove!
The poor (maybe not so) woman just had to join the IPG – oops, sorry Simon, the IPPG!
Talking about money, here’s an interesting comparison. In 1997 I took over as the 13 member Labour Group and Opposition Leader from Jackie Lawrence who had just been elected as an MP. I reeived £3,500 as a local member and £1,750 as Group Leader, so £5,250 in total.
Cllr Paul Miller in the same position today gets £22,000 – a rise of 319% whilst council staff wages have risen by an average of 40% in the same period.
It is worth noting also that until allowances rose dramatically we did not have a single Labour, Plaid Cymru or Liberal Democrat defection to the ruling group. Maybe some hawk-eyed contributor can spot the connection.
When Sue Perkins jumped ship, she said she had no other motive than to help the children of Pembrokeshire.
A lot of people thought that Sue had said: “I’m only doing it for the kids” when it is now suggested that what she actually said was: “I’m only doing it for the quids”.
How can PCC find £250,000 for the Neyland “Community Hub” project but not £17,000 to keep Hubberston Community Centre open?
It’s obvious. ‘Once Red now Blue’ Sue was educated in Pembrokeshire with the phonic displacement of kids and quids.
She’s fronted a triathlon of failed consultations in Haverfordwest and then caves in to parental pressure over the peninsula. Farmer Adams’ magic trick of pulling rabbits out of the hat for his old stomping ground shows just how much of a puppet (muppet) True Blue is.
With her mate Kate having journeyed along the yellow brick road it’s left to Sue to front this out.
Galf, the answer to your question could possibly be Dr Simon Hancock is a worthwhile local councillor.
Malcolm, perhaps it’s time for Cllrs Viv and Mike Stoddart to join the IPPG?
Worthwhile local councillor?
A lot of hard work has been done by people in Neyland in bringing the new project to fruition but I believe that in part it’s reward for Dr Hancock’s hypocritical defection to the IPG, further insulting the people that he represents by insisting the he didn’t join the “IPG” because they added another letter for him to be able to keep his empty promise.
Oh Malcolm, you have let yourself down badly with your last comment.
You are clearly implying that the Hubberston councillor is not a “worthwhile” councillor because the community centre there is closing at present. Yet Cllr Viv Stoddart has been at the heart of efforts to keep it open.
I’m sure Cllr Hancock has been part of the work to get the Neyland Community Hub off the ground, but when you consider the huge cost of that, denying the Hubberston Community their own (albeit elderly) centre for the sake of £17,000 seems somewhat odd in comparison.
It strikes me that if Jamie Adams used his own money to bribe members to leave the Labour group he would probably be committing a criminal offence.
Strange, then, that it is OK for him to use taxpayers’ money for the same purpose.
Mike Stoddart, the rest of us mugs don’t see any difference with taxpayers’ money being misused as an inducement to prop up a corrupt regime.
It would be great if the courts would clarify this through prosecution. I bet PCC’s legal department have an opinion that it’s all above board, but then again they have been proven wrong time and time again.